Be a Football Heret...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Be a Football Heretic - 5 Ways to Challenge Football Dogma

Page 2 / 4

Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
Diamond
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 7701
 

I guess my reply is why are you looking for reasons not to do something?  I have to agree with Yoda...Do or Do Not.  

My reason for going to a 2 point stance was:  I got tired of saying clean up your stances every other play.  Much rather spend that time "Cleaning Up" their blocks!   A Great Stance never made a Great Block!  

Sometimes a great block is nothing more than getting in the defenders way!  Teach them how to get in their way, with authority!  🙂

 

 

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17882
 
Posted by: @youth-coach

I guess my reply is why are you looking for reasons not to do something?  I have to agree with Yoda...Do or Do Not.  

--Agree, Scott.  Both stances work.  Regardless of which you go with, know why you went with it.  Perhaps the thread should ask, "2 or 3-point: Pros and Cons."

A Great Stance never made a Great Block!  

--And I thank you, Sir.

--Dave

 

 

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @coachsteel

Great article!  I have been going back and fourth on transitioning to a 2pt stance for my OL.  Last season I coached 10u and we definitely could have benefited from 2pt stance. But this upcoming season I will be coaching 12u. I’m struggling with when the kids are old enough to where they SHOULD be developing a proper 3pt stance.  If you have your kids in a 2pt stance what age (if any) did you or should you start to transition them to a 3??

I don't.  2 of my o-linemen started as Sophomores on Varsity for a local powerhouse. Lost in the Semifinals. One of them only played for me in the Spring and his Fall team had him in a 3 point. The other had never put his hand in the grass until 9th grade. His older brother is a Senior and will be playing for Air Force next Fall, but had a boat load of D1 offers, including a couple of Power 5 schools. He made fun of his little bro, saying "You better fix your stance because that 2 point youth crap doesn't work here."  Mocking him, I got into a solid 2 point and said "Look, I suck", then put my hand in the grass and said "Now I'm good", lifted it, "Now I suck", put it down, "Now I'm good", etc. We all had a good laugh over it. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @32wedge
Posted by: @mosleythecat

Be a Football Heretic

Discuss the article here.

 

Splits: Wide splits may be great for heretic coaches who are blessed with athletic linemen, but if all you got is fat freddies, you'll get killed with 3 foot splits.

Respectfully disagree, sir. 🙂

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @coachdp

From the article:

"This summer, I watched a varsity offensive line coach getting frustrated trying to get a good stance out of a third grader."

Why?  Stance has nothing to do with the block.  I'd rather spend my time on what matters.

--Dave

 

 

Why? Because he was a grumpy old dinosaur. The 3rd grader was my nephew and he made him cry. IN A CAMP! I wanted to make the grumpy old dinosaur cry.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @coachdp

As for the Mega Splits section, I'm re-examining my thoughts on that one.  There are an awful lot of dumb defensive coordinators out there and it's amazing what Mega Splits will do to them.  Of course, we use them at the high school and I believe that if we stretched our offensive line from the home sideline to the visitors' sideline, then the defense would do the same.  Defenses spend waaaay too much time worrying about how offenses line up, motion, and tempo and all that sort of thing instead of just executing their defensive plays.

--Dave

 

I'm running the "DW" with mega splits this Spring and Fall. I used quotes because I don't want to insult you or any other DWers, LOL.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @coachsteel

@coachdp

I simply was looking to hear from other coaches on their experiences with 2pt vs 3pt stance. I have had my kids in 3pt stance for the past few years and this year I am considering moving to 2pt.  Why is that so hard to understand? I’m sure that the majority of coaches on here that use 2 pt stance “transitioned” from the 3pt to 2pt at some point. I am at that point, and was just looking for advice and shared experiences from other coaches that did the same on the forum.  I don’t want to “teach them what I want” I want to teach them what will allow them to execute and be successful  on game days.  

The theme of the article was intended to be always asking "Why?". "Why do we do this?" So I'll pose that question to you. Why did you have your kids in a 3pt stance for the past few years and this year?

It's not a pointed question, and definitely not a troll. It may have a very good and sound answer. I'll say this, the first time I used 2 point stances, we were a double tight, DW team with zero splits. 3 yards and a cloud of dust. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @youth-coach

I guess my reply is why are you looking for reasons not to do something? 

 

 

Because it's in my nature. I think about football nearly all the time. I'm always thinking "What if . . .?"

I'm lucky enough to be in a situation where almost nothing is off limits. We'll try anything once. Also, questioning dogma often yields knowledge in completely unrelated areas.  A better understanding of passing should give you a better understanding of pass defense, for example.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
CoachSteel
(@coachsteel)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 48
 
Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @coachsteel

@coachdp

I simply was looking to hear from other coaches on their experiences with 2pt vs 3pt stance. I have had my kids in 3pt stance for the past few years and this year I am considering moving to 2pt.  Why is that so hard to understand? I’m sure that the majority of coaches on here that use 2 pt stance “transitioned” from the 3pt to 2pt at some point. I am at that point, and was just looking for advice and shared experiences from other coaches that did the same on the forum.  I don’t want to “teach them what I want” I want to teach them what will allow them to execute and be successful  on game days.  

The theme of the article was intended to be always asking "Why?". "Why do we do this?" So I'll pose that question to you. Why did you have your kids in a 3pt stance for the past few years and this year?

It's not a pointed question, and definitely not a troll. It may have a very good and sound answer. I'll say this, the first time I used 2 point stances, we were a double tight, DW team with zero splits. 3 yards and a cloud of dust. 

I had them in 3 point the last few years because we ran a Power I with mostly base blocking up front and lead/ISO blocking from our backs. I felt the 3 pt would help them stay low and fire off the ball. Last season we moved to Delaware wing T. The change in blocking to gap and down blocking. It really magnified some of my kids problems with getting out of their stance to execute a proper down block.  I was thinking a 2 pt might help these kids get themselves into proper position to make a better down block. 


ReplyQuote
Coach E
(@coache)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

We switched to a 2 point stance last year and we're not going back. It just worked better for what we were doing and for many of the same reasons listed in the article.

For passing accuracy and reads, we went with Clark's offense and called the pass play based on what the previous reads were and threw to a space. The QB could read coverage in the area the play was called and if it was covered, tuck and run.

"We like to pick a coach’s son for QB..." - DADDY BALLING!!

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.- Marcus Aurelius


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @coachsteel

I had them in 3 point the last few years because we ran a Power I with mostly base blocking up front and lead/ISO blocking from our backs. I felt the 3 pt would help them stay low and fire off the ball. Last season we moved to Delaware wing T. The change in blocking to gap and down blocking. It really magnified some of my kids problems with getting out of their stance to execute a proper down block.  I was thinking a 2 pt might help these kids get themselves into proper position to make a better down block. 

By "base blocking", I assume you mean blocking the man covering you. So what happens when the defensive line doesn't cover your offensive line? 

I felt the 3 pt would help them stay low and fire off the ball.

Did it? In my experience the first thing an offensive linemen does from a 3 point stance is hurry up and get out of it, often standing up higher than if he'd started in a low 2.

It really magnified some of my kids problems with getting out of their stance to execute a proper down block.

And in my experience, this is a pervasive problem in youth football, regardless of what kid of block they are trying to execute. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4503
 
Posted by: @eric-welshons

"We like to pick a coach’s son for QB..." - DADDY BALLING!!

I now realize how that sounds. 

1) Out of 8 coaches, 4 of us don't have kids on the team, including the 3 most experienced coaches.

2) We have been snake bit when it comes to QBs for a very long time. For us, it's a matter of "which QB is going to suck the least". 

So I realize our situation is far from typical. Being a coach's son is at the bottom of our list of criteria and my statement suggests otherwise. Thanks for pointing it out.

Last year's QB (well, the one we eventually settled on) would actually have been a pretty good one except that he is the shortest player in the league. He got the job because the one we picked previously threw 2 of the biggest "head scratcher" passes in the history of the forward pass. In each, he looked a wide open receiver right into his soul, then pivoted and threw to the opposite side of the field. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
Coyote
(@coyote)
Bronze
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 294
 

Greetings

From coaching Wrestling, I know if I control my opponent's hips I'm in control.   The Defender's arms can't wrap up what his legs can't catch, and the arms and legs are connected through the hips.   While the rest of our league drafts BIG OLines, we draft for quick-over-big, often kids on our line in 3rd grade are RB's in 4th.  We teach SAB and our aiming point is the DL's hips.  (Outside shoulder, w/ ear on his belly to prevent quick penetration).  As long as our kids keep their feet moving, the angle gives our kids a mechanical advantage (or as least we believe it does and our kids buy into that pretty fast).

This seems to work well for our late round picks esp.  We generally put two of the weaker / slower / medicated kids [kids that have been passed over by the entire league for 15 - 16 rounds or more*] at the OTs, where our TE's can help if needed.  Usually, they're not needed.  

We can get this from a 3 pt stance, not a 2 pt.  We usually don't have a lot of trouble after the 2nd - 3rd game with stances.  We have more trouble with getting kids out of the 'squatting dog' stance (butt down, head up) than we do standing up before blocking.  [Altho most our opponents kids do have the problem described in the article.  Big kids want to play Tall].  This past season, we really only had one kid (OG) who'd cock his head funny trying to see, but in his case, he has an odd shaped head, and the only helmet we found that fit him kinda blocked his peripheral vision (HC thinks he'll be FB next yr, I'm not so sure...)

So, from our experience over the last 5 yrs, I think we're better off in a 3 pt.  If we do get stuck with some kids who can't bend, I'll keep the 2 pt in mind. 

* We're an every-kid-plays league, if the kid's not playing on Offense, he is on Defense, and no 'put him for two -plays and pull him' stuff is allowed.   So, we gotta play the weaker kids somewhere, and we can't put 'em all on Defense - so OT and sometimes SE - tend to be those spots, for us.  When the league gets up around 19 - 20 kids per team, we add another team.

Hope this is helpful

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


ReplyQuote
Coyote
(@coyote)
Bronze
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 294
 
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

For us, it's a matter of "which QB is going to suck the least". 

Greetings

We strongly identify with that...  😀 

Coaching 3rd - 4th graders, we're fairly limited in pass attacks.  Our "O", the qb is the 4th running back (Waggle), and for the most part we only ask him to get the snap, give it to the correct kid, and carry out his fakes.   So, while parents think its some kinda big honor for their kid to be qb, we actually fill our other backs, our OG's and sometimes even our TE's first.   

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


ReplyQuote
MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
 

3pt or 2pt my question is which one can you teach? While I maybe a dinosaur, who has been coaching before Noah could swim, I also recognize that often it isn't the technique that really matters. The way it's taught makes all the difference in the world. IMHO there is nothing worse than a bad 3pt stance; however a bad 2pt stance is right there.

Once a stance is chosen the most important thing is what happens on the snap. If a player has a beautiful 3 pt stance, but doesn't fire out, then what good is it? Same is true for the 2pt stance. The key thing is putting it all together.

 

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


mahonz liked
ReplyQuote
Page 2 / 4
Share: