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Dealing with a Bear Front  

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PSLCOACHROB
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But again, I just don't think anybody is saying that they have won with nothing but a bunch of Rudy's. Unless I missed something(certainly possible).


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coachnick
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big nose n MH, I want to bring up another fact (from a so cal POV)  Most teams run spread now in CA. There are many areas, texas, Florida I hear its the same in most leagues, the spread has spread! In "upper" leagues its almost exclusively spread. Many variations and slight differences but still conceptually spread.

Therefor most defenses see the spread every day in practice vs their own team and in every game barring few exceptions.
Since these defenses see the spread so much their positions must be filled with players that are more utilitarian (cover more than just 1 gap) The days of the 250lb MIKE taking on the FB and TE are few and far between!

So defensive coordinators not only fill positions with players that are best vs the multiple threats the spread offers but also game plan the defense to accommodate for all the threats...this includes the no huddle check with me offenses....EVERYBODY DOES IT NOW DIME A DOZEN!

SOOOO my point is the spread no huddle check with me is not the contrarian offense it was a few years back, its the offense du jour now days. Its no longer "oh boy we gotta a week to game plan for this crazy spread stuff"...its we have to game plan looking for their stud players!

So what separates teams other than color of uniforms? Sadly, except subtle differences, sometimes it really is just the color of uniform. But most often its the players. At the upper levels its assumed you have good coaches...if not your gonna get replaced...and then its assumed you have a good coaches. What really separates teams is the jimmies and joes in most of these spread on spread games...otherwise recruiting would of never even started....and we would of seen a whole bunch more little 5 foot nothing 100 n nothin RUDYS!! starting in college and NFL.

Oh sure X's and Os have a say, Oh sure a good call here there can have a say, a coach can only develop a player so far...

I DONT SEE ANY 400LB RECEIVERS RUNNING A 7.5 40 YD DASH IN FOOTBALL THAT HAVE BEEN COACHED UP TOP NOTCH! I DONT SEE A 5'4" 150 LB, 5.0 40 YD DASH TIME RUNNING BACK AT ANY COLLEGE OR PRO TEAM THAT HAS EXCELLENT FOOTWORK AND BALL HANDLING SKILLS THAT HAS BEEN COACHED SO WELL HE KNOWS EVERYTHING AND IS A ALL AMERICAN GREAT KID....not 1

Obviously these are extreme examples but as big nose touched on...you can make a player better, yes, and good coaches can do this, its called player development....BUT I DON'T RECALL SEEING TO MANY TEAMS AT ANY LEVEL WITH NO TALENT NO SPEED NO ATHLETICISM NO SIZE WINNING TO MANY GAMES VS TEAMS WITH ALL THE ABOVE AND GOOD COACHING STAFFS BECAUSE THEY HAD THE BEST COACHING STAFFS!!!

In fact I haven't seen a championship game EVER of a obvious no talent team that's been coached really well winning a championship anywhere at any time... they have always had something some speed some size ...something relative...I know there are coaches that will claim THEY did win the championship and they had nuthin...IDE LIKE TO SEE THE WHOLE GAME VIDEO PLEASE!

OCD

I have my theory and you make some good points...my theory is that wing offenses in hs would win more than the spread for a longer period of time than any other offense


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bignose
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I'm not quite sure where this is coming from or where it is going.
What point is trying to be made?
Can lesser talented teams with good coaching beat more talented teams with equally good coaching?
Yeah, sure it happens all of the time.
There is something called breaks………….

Our 2010 State Championship team is the perfect example.
We were an above average, but certainly not a great team, with none of our kids from that team getting any D1 offers.

We ended the regular season 7-3, and qualified as the #4 seed in our Region. We got on a hot and  lucky streak in the playoffs.
We beat two teams in our region that we had lost to earlier in the season, and then upset the #1 ranked team in the Washington Post's Maryland poll in the State Semi Finals.
They had 8 kids with D1 letters of intent. How? We forced 5 turnovers and their QB had an "off" day. We played great ball as a team.

In the State Final we forced a couple of turnovers and controlled the time of possession.
In the last 3 games we were out gained by our opponents, but we ended up on the plus side of the scoreboard.
Ball control, and field position as opposed to explosive big plays.

Not one kid on our team could have started for our 1990-1991-1992 teams, that were ranked #1 in the State!

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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CoachOCD
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I'm not advocating any 1 offense over another. I am mentioning that defenses see spread more than anything else...this of course may vary from place to place but its dominantly spread now from what I see. My other point is to say it doesn't matter what offense you run, if you dont have a stacked team, talent wise, your not in top 25 nationally ranked teams. Now the ranking system may be questioned, no doubt, but its pretty consistent.

To play devils advocate vs my own statement - 

I saw a team from No Cal come down with a fly offense, couple of years back. They were well coached, had some talent, dont know if they had any D1 kids, doubt it, but they had some good football players, possibly a couple of D2 kids?? This No Cal team played vs Long Beach Poly. LBP is known for its talent, and cleary was bigger faster of the two. LBP lost the game, despite having there customary 10 D 1 kids +/- from year to year. They were OUT COACHED hands down. Any of you recall this game from the past year or 2, you will know what I mean.

The no cal team won the game because they had just enough talent, size strength for a superior coaching staff to pull it off. Switch coaching staffs and the game would of been a blow out, doubt the other No Cal team would of even made the play offs.

a good coaching staff can take a 5 and make him a 7, thats an admirable outcome. To take a 5 and make him a 9 or a 10...I have yet o see it.


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CoachOCD
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bignose Im only trying to make the point that good coaches need jimmies n joes too...its some coaches belief, and I have coached with a couple, that they can make a championship team out of anybody. They can take a 4 running back and make him the leagues super star. So to make my point I, admittedly, went to ridiculous extremes to prove my point. If its all about the coaching and not the jimmies and joes then somewhere, at some time there has to have been a team of all Rudys that won a championship. There would have to be at least one...On the other side of coin I have seen coaching staffs that were just horrible win games...repeatedly and get deep into playoffs. Why? because they were loaded with talent.


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MHcoach
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O

I can think of a few teams where we absolutely had little or no talent & won. It's not something any coach wants to do, but it can happen. No doubt  any successful team needs players, but I believe way to many coaches couldn't recognize a player if he bit him in the butt. When Rob had his run do you think the only talented players where born in Port St Lucie, when I coached in Mint Hill we definitely had talented players. Yet it was a different team every year, we didn't go 55-1 on luck.

There are so many factors that go into a championship team. Coaching is a huge part of it, team chemistry & belief, & lastly talent. I was a HC in Brooklyn for 13 years, we won 11 State championships. One of the teams that didn't win had way more talent then several of the other teams. They didn't have any chemistry, & I did a poor job coaching them. We had 2 teams that sorely were short of talent, but they simply refused to lose.

I know we had talent, but talent alone isn't enough.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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CoachOCD
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I know we had talent, but talent alone isn't enough.

this I agree with

I am always rutin for the under dog...always looking for the david to strike down the goliath.


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Coach Correa
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My two worst years were 6-3 and 7-2. Looking back it I tell people those were my best two Coaching jobs both years we had no talent depth or size finding ways to win games and make playoffs. Every game was a dog fight every week someone different would do something to contribute to us winning a game. Kid's that weren't starters early bought in and did what they had too and became contributing factors thru out season working there way in starting lineup. Even with taking early exits in playoffs I always told those kid's how proud I was of them because they never gave up.But when you get into playoffs and don't have the horses sometimes none of that matters when your dealing with a couple king kong's in cleats so it will always be a two sided debate . I personally will always bank on the more disciplined well coached team and if there studded out FORGET ABOUT IT It wouldn't matter anyway.

Head Coach Tito Correa New Britain Raiders 14-U


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CoachSugg
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I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. 

Thanks to all who participated!!

Kent Sugg
Bridge Creek, OK


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CoachOCD
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I did see a river rouge vs west catholic HS school game where the team with less speed and less size won the game...better coached


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COACH JC
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Cant believe I never saw this thread. We run a lot of Bear, had a lot of success w/ it. So much so, that even tho it doesn't fit our 4-2-5 Base D, we added it as it's own deal.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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MHcoach
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J

It so much depends on the experience each coach goes through. Where as we have had great success against the Bear Front, I think it's great against a running team.

I was not a fan of the 4-2-5, until this season. We played a couple of good 4-2-5 teams & they were able to adjust & make plays on the fly.We also played a couple of bad 4-2-5 teams & gashed them bad.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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COACH JC
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J

It so much depends on the experience each coach goes through. Where as we have had great success against the Bear Front, I think it's great against a running team.

I was not a fan of the 4-2-5, until this season. We played a couple of good 4-2-5 teams & they were able to adjust & make plays on the fly.We also played a couple of bad 4-2-5 teams & gashed them bad.

Joe

Definitely. We don't even consider it in obvious passing downs or vs spread teams. We like it vs a TE/Wing edge, short yardage situations, & def against teams that struggle to throw the ball in general.

The 4-2-5 seemed like a stupid idea at the youth level to me. Then I sarted reading about it, figured out how flexible it is (like you alluded to) and I was sold. I've never had so many sacks, tfl's & picks in one season. Numbers are so ridiculous it's not even believable.

Granted talent was a huge part of that. But man, when you got athletes, it's a great D to utilize them, thats for sure.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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MHcoach
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J

People always ask me what is the most difficult defense we see. It's a type of defense more then a specific scheme. A penetrating stunting 2 Shell with the DB's sitting at 6 1/2 yds is the most difficult for us.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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COACH JC
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J

People always ask me what is the most difficult defense we see. It's a type of defense more then a specific scheme. A penetrating stunting 2 Shell with the DB's sitting at 6 1/2 yds is the most difficult for us.

Joe

Great way to put it. What front you're in really doesn't matter much. What you do in that front is what really matters.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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