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Pantherlinecoach
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What kind of work in space are you referring to? What kind of drills? I run a box drill (basically a 9 vs. 8), helps with finding that Zone runner. What can I add to that? The box is very confined. Jet Drills? What else?


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MHcoach
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Panther

Start with the OLine, we use large splits so here we are teaching & working in space. Next, with our backs & receivers we are constantly working on their ability to block in space. Our rule "No Block No Rock", only players who block will ever see the ball. We work hard with the WR stalk blocking, again playing in space. We teach them how & who to crack on G scheme.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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Dimson
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Joe, can you explain a little bit about slide 79? It just seems like a random slide. Is it a PAP and how does the QB know who to throw it to?


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MHcoach
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Chris

Hardly random, & perhaps the best Youth PaP, for 11's & up. PAW (Post and Wheel) concept, Y is running a post (typo there) this is a presnap read. At our level our QB is checking that tube for a collision player, at the youth level we simply teach MOFC & outside leverage throw the Post. Now for the nuts & bolts of the Concept, after the Flash fake & a 3 step drop QB peaks the wheel, this is where we want the ball to go. Vs M2M we should have a mismatch, Vs Zone cover 3 did the corner slide inside with the post, vs cover 2 Safety held by the Post. The Dig by X is our "Rush route", everything should be cleared by the Post & the Go.

In 1 play you have everything you need for a deep concept. I have taught noodle arm small QB's to throw the Wheel, the Post & the Dig require a little more ability, but not a laser arm.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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Dimson
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Thanks for the explanation. Wasn't sure who to key since there was not an description of the concept.


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DL
 DL
(@daniel-lyons)
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Very useful.    Thanks Joe. 

Might be a few years hence as my son just turned 6 and I might not coach for a few years, but I will run this stuff next time I am coaching 9 and up.  Ran a snippet last year late after we talked and it worked very well. 

Think I could do it with 7/8?    Zone, stretch and a counter with just backfield?  Maybe one or two short passes?  I think so.  No more or less complicated then other schemes. 

If I do coach 5 and 6 no idea what I will run.  I guess same thing with no passes and everybody in tight. 


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MHcoach
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Chris

It's under the PaP section, as you see the way I do it takes some explanation & the PP was already too large. The basis of the concept has been tinkered with since the early 90's. At the Youth level it can be a devastating play, the beauty is the play develops as your team develops. Our first couple of seasons at MH we had a QB with a huge arm, we actually had to work hard to get him not to over throw the wheel, his back up was a smaller player but threw the wheel better.

Where I am now we throw, PAW, SLaW, & CLaW. SLaW is slant wheel, CLaW is curl wheel. We will look at the coverage from the box to determine which gives us the best advantage. I guess for me since I have using this concept for so long it's just understood. I have found there isn't a huge install time needed so it is an easy investment.

Originally, I ran it with a Post Curl & a Wheel. The Post Curl was supposed to be the primary route, what happened was the Wheel was constantly open, so it evolved to the primary route. We then made the Post a presnap read, & wow things really took off. The Dig & the Go on the backside was also a development. It started out as PAW to both sides, way too much for a Youth QB to look at. Again this is a great example how things change as time goes by.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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MHcoach
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Dan

I can only say we ran this offense with 9/10's. It went very well, the key being the OLine was very well coached. It was a funny team, they really didn't have outstanding talent. Actually they were small & slow. They finished 11-1 winning the State, but losing at regional to a team with much more talent. I would be interested to see how it worked with younger players.

I know with the 9/10's the fast screen game & Naked was 90% of their passing game. Even though they didn't have great talent, getting their players in space caused teams trouble. They loved Naked in the Red Zone, & it was almost like stealing.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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Pantherlinecoach
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Joe

Had a question about a play call. I saw on the power point where you would call "King Zone Right" or "King Z Jet Right"  Do you have any examples of how to shorten a play call? Say I want to run the Zone off the Jet motion. King Z Jet Zone Right?? I don't like long play calls. If you had any suggestions on shortening those calls, that would be great.


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MHcoach
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Panther

Like I have said in the Power Point, this isn't a playbook or a System. We have always had multiple ways to call our plays. Zone Right for example could be 24, Red Arizona, Grey Wild Cat,or Black 7(wrist band). The formation can be a hand signal, or even jumbo playing cards. I have done it so many different ways over the years.

It really depends on what age you coaching, & the football IQ of your team.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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rozelle25
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Coach,

Looking at this for 10/11 age group. There is no slam dunk tail back. It would likely come from either someone who, in a perfect world, is an H or a Z. The Z I'm thinking about is pretty small. The H is a bruiser but not dynamic. Which of these would you recommend be moved to T? If we keep Z put, X and Z would be a tough combo in the screen game and quick passing routes. Thanks.


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MHcoach
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Rozelle

Please don't take this the wrong way. Finding the TB is an art, he isn't always the fastest, strongest, or toughest. He simply is the best RB you have. Most Youth football teams have the very same problem, they can't Identify whom is the best RB. This is why over the years I watch every drill where a player is running the ball. I am fortunate in that my experience usually allows me to identify that player fairly fast. The other thing is I take into account that players change from year to year.

My advice is work both of them at TB as well as H & Z, our backs are always cross trained. Usually by the first game it will become clear who is the best back. I have won with bruisers who would never break off that 60 yd run, & with small fast backs. Coach'em up & one will emerge.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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mahonz
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Coach,

Looking at this for 10/11 age group. There is no slam dunk tail back. It would likely come from either someone who, in a perfect world, is an H or a Z. The Z I'm thinking about is pretty small. The H is a bruiser but not dynamic. Which of these would you recommend be moved to T? If we keep Z put, X and Z would be a tough combo in the screen game and quick passing routes. Thanks.

R

One point I will throw out there because a zone scheme is all encompassing....

At the youth levels and the semi pro levels it came down to the best back WITH VISION and the ability to jump cut that won the TB spot.  Size and speed only adds to his value but vision is critical.

Running the football in a zone scheme becomes fluid...meaning not every carry is going to be exactly the same. It begins the same but doesn't always end the same.

Oddly...I found my best zone runners to be WB or WR types at the youth level. Smallish with some natural shake and bake.

If you pigeon hole a TB that tests well in practice but come game day he cant see the forest thru the trees...you will leave a lot of yards on the field. Like Joe says....its an art form.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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MHcoach
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Mike

It really changes from year to year & team to team. I have gotten a player from other organizations who never carried the ball only to become great TB's for us. I wish there was something I could say helps me pick them out. One thing I do look for is pigeon toed & bow legged. I have had some truly great backs who were both.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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mahonz
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Mike

It really changes from year to year & team to team. I have gotten a player from other organizations who never carried the ball only to become great TB's for us. I wish there was something I could say helps me pick them out. One thing I do look for is pigeon toed & bow legged. I have had some truly great backs who were both.

Joe

Joe

It is crazy. One season we ran the DW at the youth level just to see. I figured my TB from the season before who learned how to run the zone would be the guy at WB for toss. Nope. He was the guy at FB running wedge and holy cow could that kid run wedge. I asked him why he did so well busting out of the mess 3-4-5 yards down field for HUGE gains.

He told me because of what he learned running zone he could anticipate the wedge and where it was going to break out.... pre snap. So he would half speed it into the wedge with patience as coached but then jump cut out of the apex and into a crease at the right moment.

This kid was 11 years old at the time and was a 3 year starter at TB for his HS Program that ran something very simplify to your offense. He didn't get "big" until HS when he committed and hit the weights. Never was he the fastest kid on the field either. Just played smart and was coach-able beating out others that fit the TB mold much better than he did.

The kid could also run Beast Blast like no other now that I think about it.

Vision.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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