Notifications
Clear all

Quick Game Concepts & Teaching

Page 4 / 6

Spyder89
(@spyder89)
Bronze
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 184
 

Ray

I have taught it both ways. We teach yardage at the HS level. Here it is very easy to see why. We can have a 6'5" receiver & 5'6" receiver. There is a huge disparity in the length of their steps.

It is much easier to  teach steps, & the receivers will get it faster. Teaching depth it really matters if the receiver is on or off. There is a 1 yd difference. So we have to constantly be on top of our guys.

Teaching steps it was easier for my receivers to be more consistent faster.

Joe

Joe,

I understand the disparity completely.  I started coaching and have done most of my stints at the HS/MS level and I think that's why I've been accustomed to doing it that way.  I've only been coaching at the youth level for a couple of years now and honestly should have made the switch to steps earlier.  The inconsistency in routes killed us last year and I've accepted that it was due to our teaching yards over steps.  Too much thinking involved for the kids to try and think about the yardage, especially when they get bumped at the line.

- Ray

- Ray


ReplyQuote
MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
Topic starter  

M

I couldn't agree more! We count them for everything.

Protection is another issue. I could talk protections all day. We vary the protection "Style" to fit the drop, not the scheme just the execution.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4511
 

Not looking to start an argument . . . but . . .

My first year with Mahonz, I was coaching receivers and backs in the receiving game. I was new to the whole passing thing and had never seen a passing tree. I tried to "own" it and really worked the details with route running, correct foot forward, snapping your head to make eye contact with the QB, catching in your hands, etc. I had a couple of guys who had gotten fairly precise with their route running.

Our best receiver, the one who Mahonz always says runs great routes, the only one who can run an adequate popcorn route . . . runs the sloppiest, laziest, amoeba routes on the team. He does, however have an innate sense of space and timing, which is what allows him to get open. He just seems to create separation, then arrive at the right place at the right time. But to suggest he counts his steps is pretty funny.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
Topic starter  

L

It's all about being a teaching thing. Hopefully, all receivers within a few weeks simply run the proper steps through muscle memory.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

Not looking to start an argument . . . but . . .

My first year with Mahonz, I was coaching receivers and backs in the receiving game. I was new to the whole passing thing and had never seen a passing tree. I tried to "own" it and really worked the details with route running, correct foot forward, snapping your head to make eye contact with the QB, catching in your hands, etc. I had a couple of guys who had gotten fairly precise with their route running.

Our best receiver, the one who Mahonz always says runs great routes, the only one who can run an adequate popcorn route . . . runs the sloppiest, laziest, amoeba routes on the team. He does, however have an innate sense of space and timing, which is what allows him to get open. He just seems to create separation, then arrive at the right place at the right time. But to suggest he counts his steps is pretty funny.

Are we talking Pablo? A great route runner? Not hardly but he does get open.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

M

I couldn't agree more! We count them for everything.

Protection is another issue. I could talk protections all day. We vary the protection "Style" to fit the drop, not the scheme just the execution.

Joe

Can you explain "styles" when you have a moment....or start a new Thread in your Section.

Lar and I have toyed with sliding with these mega splits off and on and it seems to work rather poorly. Back it the day we would slide more then we'd hinge.

We are starting over with Super Smurfs next Fall and with this run Lar really wants to focus on the passing game. Its been hit and miss clunky with our last team over the long haul mainly due to the fact we rarely had a worthy QB multiple years in a row...as a result of our clunky-ness. ( turnover )

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4511
 

Are we talking Pablo? A great route runner? Not hardly but he does get open.

Yep.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4511
 

Lar and I have toyed with sliding with these mega splits off and on and it seems to work rather poorly.

Slide worked great until Gman took the backs out of pass pro. Where Deion was confused in Spring, Jaden was a natural at calling the slide vs 6 and calling in H for help vs 7. It was working fine, but G insisted on 5 receivers in the pattern. So we made a deal that if the D brings 6 or more, he calls short routes. He hasn't stuck to our deal. Fortunately, it's rarely a problem.

Having said that, I'm starting to dread teaching slide protection to 7 year olds.  ???

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

Yep.

Ah...I would consider him a TE....and a really good one.

The really good route runners that are receivers....X, Jayden, Deion....Jaxson did well too. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

Slide worked great until Gman took the backs out of pass pro. Where Deion was confused in Spring, Jaden was a natural at calling the slide vs 6 and calling in H for help vs 7. It was working fine, but G insisted on 5 receivers in the pattern. So we made a deal that if the D brings 6 or more, he calls short routes. He hasn't stuck to our deal. Fortunately, it's rarely a problem.

Having said that, I'm starting to dread teaching slide protection to 7 year olds.  ???

There are steadfast rules to sliding and its VERY elementary.

You will be fine. We'll send G over to the D for some much needed training.  Then he will have a better understanding of his past dysfunctions. 🙂

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
Topic starter  

M

Teaching 7 y/o's protection is definitely something that needs planning. While everyone knows what a fan of Slide Protection, I am; perhaps using a Vertical Set protection at that age may be easier to teach. I think this is where what type of Pass you will actually throw comes into play. 7's usually is Quicks & Boots.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


ReplyQuote
32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 755
 

I watched the first R4 video.  The part about reading defensive coverage was interesting.  Not convinced enough to install the air raid yet.  I am still learning towards the Mahonz R3 system.  I will try to watch the second video with an open mind. 


ReplyQuote
MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
Topic starter  

32

R4 isn't about the style or scheme you run on offense. Rather the way you communicate within your own scheme. You can be UBSW & still use R4.

What I like the best is it allows me to simply communicate things I have been doing for years.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


ReplyQuote
32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 755
 

32

R4 isn't about the style or scheme you run on offense. Rather the way you communicate within your own scheme. You can be UBSW & still use R4.

What I like the best is it allows me to simply communicate things I have been doing for years.

Joe

Hopefully, it will explain the communication in video 2.  Right now "throw it to the guy I tell you to" is making a lot more sense. 


ReplyQuote
GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
Gold
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1670
 

Wedge,

It's easier than a lot of people make it and can be applied to any scheme.

Think of it this way, when you say "throw it to the guy I tell you to," how do YOU know who you want him to throw it to?

Let's use 16 Pass from the UBSW as an example - both TEs running Seams. And let's say you're facing Cov 3.

The FS cannot cover both Seams so we want to throw wherever he ain't, same thing Spread teams do running 4 Verts against Cover 3.

So if the FS is favoring a side, you'd prob tell your QB to throw the other side. If the FS is dead in between, you'd prob tell your QB to throw to your better TE. One of the first things R4 does (pre-snap) is teach your QB to determine his Rhythm receiver pre-snap. Defenses move around so what you saw last play or even when you first line up may no longer be the case by the time the ball is snapped which is one way "throw it to the guy I tell you" breaks down.

It can and often does also break down post-snap esp against smart coaches that scout.

Let's say your opponent knows your kid #13 is a dude. You insert #13 at LTE to run 16 Pass - their FS has been shading strong so you tell Johnny QB to throw it to #13. Their FS aligns as he has but totally jumps #13 at the snap bc their scouting report says when you rotate him to TE, you're running 16 Pass. You just told your QB to throw a pick whereas R4 would tell your kid throw where the FS ain't (if FS jumps Rhythm, throw the Read (opposite seam) for TD).

What R4 does is provide a simple process, WITHIN YOUR SYSTEM, for your QB to make the best decision pre and post snap.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


ReplyQuote
Page 4 / 6
Share: