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WBCoach
(@rstockwell)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 459
Topic starter  

Joe we are talking youth 10-14 yr olds. Please let me know what I should change or what needs to be corrected. joe please keep in mind I will be running this as if I'm you so please feel free to bust my balls in order for me to correct the problems. Besides if I fail it's YOUR FAULT not mine 😛 😛 😛

0. Shallow (run across DL heels)
1. Arrow (2 step upfield then out)
2. Slant  (3 step stem then cut in)
3: Comeback (same steps opposite hitch)
4. Hitch. (1 step stem out 4 steps upfield turn in)
5. Out  (4steps upfield then hard out)
6. Post (5steps upfield then angle to post)
7. Corner (6 steps then angle to corner)
9. Go (obvious what to do)

Other routes not on tree that I will use per Joes PDF

Bubble
Smoke
Rocket
Fade

Team work: good as gold


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Ronin
(@ronin1974)
Gold
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1492
 

What is the difference in a Go route and a Fade route?


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
 

Joe we are talking youth 10-14 yr olds. Please let me know what I should change or what needs to be corrected. joe please keep in mind I will be running this as if I'm you so please feel free to bust my balls in order for me to correct the problems. Besides if I fail it's YOUR FAULT not mine 😛 😛 😛

0. Shallow (run across DL heels)
1. Arrow (2 step step upfield then out)Hitch Outside stem break on 5th step
2. Slant  (3 step stem then cut in)
3: Comeback (same steps opposite hitch)Our
4. Hitch. (1 step stem out 4 steps upfield turn in)Dig
5. Out  (4steps upfield then hard out)Comeback
6. Post (5steps upfield then angle to post)Curl
7. Corner (6 steps then angle to corner)
8 Post
9. Go (obvious what to do)

Other routes not on tree that I will use per Joes PDF

Bubble
Smoke
Rocket
Fade

Now, we taught our players the tree but rarely ran every route at the youth level. All odds are out cuts & take place on an even step. All evens are In cuts & take place on the odd step.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
 

What is the difference in a Go route and a Fade route?The only difference is where you are on the field.

Inside the 10 the outside receiver runs directly to the corner that is the Fade.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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WBCoach
(@rstockwell)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 459
Topic starter  

Now, we taught our players the tree but rarely ran every route at the youth level. All odds are out cuts & take place on an even step. All evens are In cuts & take place on the odd step.

Joe

Joe, please advise. Thanks

0. Shallow
1. Hitch? How is hitch 1 on route tree when it's a route that breaks inside?
2. Slant
3. Our? What is our?
4. Dig
5. Comeback
6. Curl
7. Corner
8. Post
9. Go

Team work: good as gold


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2352
 

This is an honest question, not me being a wise ass.

What is the benefit of teaching kids (assuming youth level) a tree versus just teaching the concept as a whole?

It seems like some of our most effective routes (quick screens and money routes like strike and fire) don't fit into the tree and the routes that are in the tree could be communicated with one word (Smash) rather than building the concept using the tree (X Comeback, Z Corner) or numbers (56).

We always taught concepts and never stood out there and walked through the whole tree with our kids. Now, they knew what the important routes were (post, slant, arrow) but we never taught them a route that we didn't plan on using. Then again, maybe I'm missing something here.

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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WBCoach
(@rstockwell)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 459
Topic starter  

Matt I get what your saying but I wanted to put together a passing tree that they could take home and practice on their own. We are only using concepts like flood, mesh , slant/arrow etc.
That being said we only teach what will be used. Looking over that tree comeback is the only one that won't be used that much. How many routes on that tree did you not use?

Team work: good as gold


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Ronin
(@ronin1974)
Gold
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1492
 

This is an honest question, not me being a wise ass.

What is the benefit of teaching kids (assuming youth level) a tree versus just teaching the concept as a whole?

It seems like some of our most effective routes (quick screens and money routes like strike and fire) don't fit into the tree and the routes that are in the tree could be communicated with one word (Smash) rather than building the concept using the tree (X Comeback, Z Corner) or numbers (56).

We always taught concepts and never stood out there and walked through the whole tree with our kids. Now, they knew what the important routes were (post, slant, arrow) but we never taught them a route that we didn't plan on using. Then again, maybe I'm missing something here.

I am not teaching the entire tree... just the routes we will use.  I am not teaching like a specific tree either... just using numbers that make sense... Even toward the ball and Odd away... bigger numbers are deeper routes.  I like the idea because I can call the play from the sideline as such...

So, you have WRs X, Y, Z...  A good route is X = Slant, Y = Arrow, Z = motion from opposite side of field into a Wheel... so X = 2, Y = 3, Z = 1.

So to call the play, "Z[Motion], 231" [Motion] = whatever terminology you use for motion...


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
 

Joe, please advise. Thanks

0. Shallow
1. Hitch? How is hitch 1 on route tree when it's a route that breaks inside?Hitch starts with an outside stem & spins outside after the completion.
2. Slant
3. Our? What is our?Out
4. Dig
5. Comeback
6. Curl
7. Corner
8. Post
9. Go

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2352
 

Matt I get what your saying but I wanted to put together a passing tree that they could take home and practice on their own. We are only using concepts like flood, mesh , slant/arrow etc.
That being said we only teach what will be used. Looking over that tree comeback is the only one that won't be used that much. How many routes on that tree did you not use?

0. Shallow
1. Hitch
2. Slant
3. Out
4. Dig
5. Comeback
6. Curl
7. Corner
8. Post
9. Go

From this list I never ran Shallow, Out, Dig, Comeback, Curl, or Corner in a game. We experimented with some of them in practice, and did run some of them in off season Flag, but they never made it onto the grass on game day with my 12-13's last year. Maybe I'm just a dummy for doing it this way, but we threw quite a bit and with good success.

Routes I don't see that we used a lot: PoCo, Wheel, Strike, Chuck, Cross, Fire, Chair.

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2352
 

I am not teaching the entire tree... just the routes we will use.  I am not teaching like a specific tree either... just using numbers that make sense... Even toward the ball and Odd away... bigger numbers are deeper routes.  I like the idea because I can call the play from the sideline as such...

So, you have WRs X, Y, Z...  A good route is X = Slant, Y = Arrow, Z = motion from opposite side of field into a Wheel... so X = 2, Y = 3, Z = 1.

So to call the play, "Z[Motion], 231" [Motion] = whatever terminology you use for motion...

Right, I get the idea of numbered routes for play calling. And again, not knocking you, but it sounds like you're only using the tree to make the numbers make sense. My question is, do you really need the numbers at all? If you want the ability to create concepts you haven't practiced on the fly, it makes sense. We just didn't do it that way so I'm curious how others put things together.

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
Kryptonite
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 12408
 

Smash was one of our most successful concepts. We didn't run all the routes either. I don't see a whole lot of talk about outside screens here.


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 7637
 

I don't know call me silly. I don't hand out playbooks they are for coaches, I don't hand out sheets or anything else. Players in my opinion need to be taught, handing a Playbook out means you assume they will read it. I stopped assuming anything with players way back in the 80's.

Now, let's say this is only about the coaches. Then having a numbered tree with additions can make sense. A 12U team only needs a couple of concepts. At that age our entire pass offense centers around Naked & Fast Screens. Add a playaction with PAW & a couple of Pump plays & you have more than enough.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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coachcoolnoe
(@coachcoolnoe)
Copper
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 13
 

Joe can you explain PAW play and what all players do on that play?


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2352
 

Joe can you explain PAW play and what all players do on that play?

I'm not Joe, but we ran this so I'll take a stab and he can correct me if I screw it up.

PAW = Post And Wheel

We ran it from Queen (2x1 Gun).

X          T G C G T            Y
    Z                      H
              R  Q

Full slide protection to the right for the line and back.

X runs a post - break on 5th step
Z runs a wheel - two flat steps at the sideline then round it off and get vertical by the 5th step
Y runs Post or Dig
H could also run a wheel to mirror the concept, but our H was slow so we didn't usually do that.

Q reads corner. Short 3 drop from Gun. If corner sits or widens, throw the post. If corner chases inside, throw the wheel.

Video of it at 4:58:

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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