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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 4:14 am  

Anybody consider/actually play hard 2?
To be more exact, Hard 2, corners hard inside, on the line of scrimmage, bump and run, and PLAYING FORCE.
Essentially it is trap coverage. But you could also play it traditional outside leverage of the corners and play force. Olbers or de in both cases become fill immediately.

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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 4:56 am  

007

Here again we have a difference of terminology. Hard 2 to me is Squat corners, think Miami under Coach Johnson. Bump & Run corners where you play 9 on 9 is Colorado 2 to me.

I have played quite a few variations of C2 over the years, we never really played the Colorado 2 since we never had corners that could simply take away any receiver in the game.

In our Hard 2 the corners squated outside #1 at 4 yds, at times we even quartered them inside. They couldn't give #1 a clean vertical release.Their job was to redirect them back inside.

Joe

I do not want to play at 4 yards. I want to put them right up in the receivers face, jam the crap out of them, force them either in or out, and play force in the run game. I do not care what you call it, what it is called.
More and more I want to hit people right in the kisser, and force the issue with opposing teams. Why you would play off on skill rec. especially at the youth level, where teaching the receiver to get off the line of scrimmage is almost unheard of, is beyond me.

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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 5:01 am  

007

So you are saying having them on the line but not M2M?

Joe

Hard 2, not hard 2 mm. Corners cant play force in mm.

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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 26, 2017 5:37 am  

My experience with jamming at the  youth level has not been that great.  Too many whiffs and/or physical mismatches.  4 yards was the minimum depth for both Zone and M2M.  It gave the CB a bit of time to read his Key and still react properly to his man or zone responsibility.  I have had few players capable of being called a Lock Down Corner. 

Unlike Joe, I teach to jam or redirect outside whenever possible, especially at the younger ages, for the simple fact that its a much harder throw for a young QB.  It requires more distance and, more importantly, touch.  That's when a lot of those Floaters get picked.

Just my thinking for my situation. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 6:39 am  

007

Ok gotcha.

When we played "Hard 2" we  played the Corners at 4 & expected them to be physical on #1. If we played them in press it was too easy to get beat on a vertical. The "Hole Shot" in C2 is about 14 -17 yds a good receiver can beat the press & get there. Now, you will say I am thinking HS, but really I am talking about my Mint Hill team. Having them 4 yds off, eliminates an outside release taking away the "Hole Shot" & allows them to always be in position to make a play.

In youth football the top players on the team are usually LB's or DE's, so when we are talking Corners they have to be very athletic to play Hard 2. Playing at 4 yds, & quartered helps them with the assignment. The only time they can't get their hands on #1 is a flat inside release,when that happens they are firing down yelling crack.

Now, I am not saying press at times isn't good, but usually we would only press them in 2man(C7 for us). In that case it was an inside jam.

Joe

How many youth teacher recievers how to beat the press?

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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 7:22 am  

007

I can't answer for everyone, but I know we did. I think the bigger question is how many Youth receivers can beat Press & how many QB's can hit the "Hole Shot"?

Now, with the offense we ran at Mint Hill over 4 seasons we could with no problems. Our QBs were talented & we always had at least 1 receiver who could torch a press team.

When I think of  playing a "Hard 2", I primarily think about stopping an outside run team. The 4 yds gave the Corner a chance to read & react. the other issue is against what formations. Again, I like it against 21 personnel. Miami(the U) changed how people played C2, & then the Tampa 2 came in vogue. At the Youth level I think the Miami version is certainly doable.

Joe

If corners are playing force, rerouting receivers, I can pack in the box with the front 7. I can also gamble more with slanting, stunting and blitzing.
I think if you do some research, you will find those old Miami teams were quarters, 1/4 1/4 1/2, roll teams. I was under same impression you were. And not so much. We have only one team who could "throw" the ball and he had the best rec. in the league by a mile. The two best athletes in the league by quite some distance. They didn't read defense at all.

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February 26, 2017 7:36 am  

007

When Coach Lubock was the DC they were a true "Hard 2" team. The 1/4, 1/4, 1/2 came later.

Anyway, I agree with what you are saying, but to answer your question when I played a "Hard 2" at the youth level that is how we did it. Now, it wasn't our primary coverage we typically used it 2 or 3 games a year, & as a change up. I think the key is the age level & the type of opponent you will see. Our Mint Hill teams certainly weren't the teams you could base things on.

The Colorado 2 was something completely different & man alive could they play press. The thing to realize is it was a different game then.

When dealing with Youth Football I always loved inverted 2 with the FS playing Robber. I just found it a great answer for 22,21,31,& 32 personnel. We played a lot of that in an over front.

Joe

I am not worried about most teams throwing the football in our league, if any.

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Kryptonite
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February 26, 2017 7:44 am  

and the lubick days were after JJ... The jimmy Johnson teams were 1/4s, 1/4 1/4 1/2 team, roll teams.

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