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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
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November 30, 2017 1:22 pm  

I was looking at the pic posted by Clark, so an easier way to run Jet out of this would be to just move #4 on the line, move 1,2 over a gap and move the Left split end in the slot and roll with it.

Who is getting the ball?

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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Wing-n-It
(@robert)
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November 30, 2017 1:23 pm  

A DCWT WB is not a "normal" WB.  He's often your best player.  He's at WB because who would think to put their best player at WB?  Every defense takes it top two studs and puts them at inside LBer opposite the other team's two best backs for the physical matchup, meaning their top two are not covering your top one.  They have some nose picker playing corner on him.  The WB can either run the ball or catch it.  I show the WB in motion because that's what he normally does and not because I think that's what he should do.  I want to minimize changes while maximizing the play.  Wholesale changes with lots of new learning is not where I want to go.  For example, I can put the WB behind the TE.  That instruction won't break his brain.  And I can have the TE block GOL simply by having him and WB trade plays.  The WB can block the gap while the TE behind him goes to #1 OLB.  No change in rule for either one and TE is a big boy who can block.

From motion he blocks harder and he comes around much faster on a reverse which I value because this kid is really fast.

The first thing I envisioned from the beast with motion from the WB was a counter "47 Jumbo" style  😉
Or Jet

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


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DumCoach
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November 30, 2017 1:29 pm  

If it were me, I'd move 3 on the line and have the X receiver (left SE) step off as a Z back.

Again, who is getting the ball?  #4?  He just ran into #2.  Or does he run behind him?

I have not seen a beast team run jet sweep.  Looks like "Mission Impossible" to me. 

My best hope was that they might think we can run it when we can from base DCWT with motion.

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
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November 30, 2017 1:50 pm  

The wider the split, the more of an island an offensive lineman is on.  Against a quick defensive lineman, a slower offensive player may have no chance.  Want to create an automatic mismatch at the youth level?  Instead of hiding defensive players on the D-Line, take your Linebackers and put them on the LOS and "hide" your MPRs at Linebacker.  The mismatch between the youth-level Fat Freddies on the O-Line and your starting Linebacker-types on the D-Line will give the offense headaches.  They may not even be able to get off a snap, or hand off the ball.

--Dave

I used to make my OL practice pass blocking their own running backs as DL's. The running backs get to pick their hole. First snap, everybody's through the line in a heartbeat!  😀
But they get better.

It's also why I was willing to let uncovered linemen stand up.  The two point offensive line theory you and I talked about when you picked me up at the airport.

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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DumCoach
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November 30, 2017 2:03 pm  

The first thing I envisioned from the beast with motion from the WB was a counter "47 Jumbo" style  😉
Or Jet

Yeah.  "47 Option" to the weakside.  Who'd expect?

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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November 30, 2017 4:02 pm  

Thank you for the suggestion.  I'm good with your point but do you see a TE in GOL and a "nasty split" taking a DL on outside shoulder of OT down?  The OT will only "On" block an even tech.  Or do I change the blocking rule to Gap-On-Fan? (If you're on the line, point at someone else on the line).

How far is nasty?

It seems that if you have the entire blocking surface protecting to the Center first then overloads get picked up so we never have them block out. I also think the beauty here is you have two blockers minimum running ISO with OLM climbing so double teams on LB'rs are not all that uncommon. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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November 30, 2017 4:06 pm  

Who is getting the ball?

The SE that is now flexed off the LOS.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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November 30, 2017 6:31 pm  

Thank you for the suggestion.  I'm good with your point but do you see a TE in GOL and a "nasty split" taking a DL on outside shoulder of OT down?  The OT will only "On" block an even tech.  Or do I change the blocking rule to Gap-On-Fan? (If you're on the line, point at someone else on the line).

Clark,

One of the first things I did was to explain "covered vs uncovered" rules. If there's a guy on your outside shade, he's covering you if his nose is on your shoulder or inside. If his nose is 1" outside your shoulder, he goes to the next guy. For those 1" guys, we allow the inside guy to help by chipping him before climbing. The outside guy asks for help. If the inside guy is climbing, he agrees to help. If he has a man in his inside gap, he says "no". If that's the case, the outside guy needs to get on his horse and make that block. Those extreme down blocks end up being either very effective or complete disasters. If it's a disaster, outside guy slides in a bit on the next play.

I don't know if that helps within the DCWT world, but it's how we solved this problem.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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November 30, 2017 6:33 pm  

I have not seen a beast team run jet sweep.

Coming this Spring.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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michealmyers
(@michealmyers)
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December 1, 2017 4:08 am  

Who is getting the ball?

X gets the ball, move him off the line and #4 on the line, easy way to run jet and I be the defense never picks up the change.


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michealmyers
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December 1, 2017 4:10 am  

Coming this Spring.

Same here, love the formation and easy way to jet out of it.


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
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December 1, 2017 4:19 am  

Coming this Spring.

Looks good on paper

With sniffers- they just snug up to get out of the way
BUT to get to the edge- that is a LONG way to run- especially now that #4 is now on the line

You have to hope that none of the D linemen or LBS for that matter penetrate into the path of the jet back
Jet backs are running at full tilt- they have a much harder time stopping and cutting back- than a beast back who starts from a near standstill when he gets the ball

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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December 1, 2017 4:35 am  

Looks good on paper

With sniffers- they just snug up to get out of the way
BUT to get to the edge- that is a LONG way to run- especially now that #4 is now on the line

You have to hope that none of the D linemen or LBS for that matter penetrate into the path of the jet back
Jet backs are running at full tilt- they have a much harder time stopping and cutting back- than a beast back who starts from a near standstill when he gets the ball

I follow you. I wouldn't be going down this path if I didn't see how close this is to our empty set. When we married regular and empty, we started bunching our trips. The spacing is different, but not drastically different. It depends on what the defense does. In our empty set, we move LBs out past the edge. In beast, they tend to (not always) move closer to the edge. As long as we can get a hat on the force defender, we are in good shape. We take our chances with CBs (contain man for 99% of our opponents) and almost never block them.

I've been trying to get our OC to count defenders outside the PT without success.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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davecisar
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December 1, 2017 4:54 am  

It seems like- your success comes from a good back being able to read the one on one matchups and his ability to navigate into an open path
Again- Im not seeing how that happens consistently well when a Jet back is running full tilt

Even guys who have a red, green, yellow tag or read on their Jet are able to legitimately threaten an edge and read one defender
In this case its so far to run to get to the edge- with the super unbalanced and very wide splits and IMO unless all of those defenders are being dominated by Olinemen, there will be penetration

You cant say- all we have to do is make sure to block everyone past the A gap- like traditional jet teams say- because of your wider splits
Penetration which you lived with- with your beast back cutting back- will be much more difficult with jet motion IMO

If you have a Jet back who can consistently beat an unblocked contain man 1-1 more power to you- not everyone has that luxury against all the teams they play and their own personel

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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michealmyers
(@michealmyers)
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December 1, 2017 5:15 am  

Coming this Spring.

Another thing would be to jet a few times, let the D adjust, then hit em with jet power.


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