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Mosley the Cat
(@mosleythecat)
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Joined: 152 years ago
Posts: 877
 
Posted by: @flexbone

What is the difference between the paid & free version of JJ's 3-3 stack attack? Definitely has piqued my interest.

You can get by with the free version, but if you are already using the defense and liking it, buy the full version. Coach JJ can tell you what I mean.

Don't cross my path.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4296
 
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

2) It's been several years since I read the KB manual. Let me make sure I'm talking about something that's actually in there vs something we tweaked. 

 

Yep. Disregard. We threw out the "Mike never crosses the LOS" rule. However, the concept of Safety Force Contain and "Contain by committee" is essentially the same. We just used different guys. "Cousins" is the technique we used for inside and off tackle runs. Each defender essentially plays half of a lead blocker, putting the RB in a lose lose situation.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 23063
 
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Yep. Disregard. We threw out the "Mike never crosses the LOS" rule. However, the concept of Safety Force Contain and "Contain by committee" is essentially the same. We just used different guys. "Cousins" is the technique we used for inside and off tackle runs. Each defender essentially plays half of a lead blocker, putting the RB in a lose lose situation.

Maybe we are ready to run it again? Worked well with the last team of Smurfs for a few years. 

Disclaimer: I say for a "few years" only because we like to experiment and bore easily.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Posts: 4296
 
Posted by: @mahonz
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Yep. Disregard. We threw out the "Mike never crosses the LOS" rule. However, the concept of Safety Force Contain and "Contain by committee" is essentially the same. We just used different guys. "Cousins" is the technique we used for inside and off tackle runs. Each defender essentially plays half of a lead blocker, putting the RB in a lose lose situation.

Maybe we are ready to run it again? Worked well with the last team of Smurfs for a few years. 

Disclaimer: I say for a "few years" only because we like to experiment and bore easily.

Sure as hell can't hurt.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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joshv155
(@joshv155)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 3365
 
Posted by: @flexbone

Just read through the KB manual one time and plan to read through it 2-3 more times. This will be my first time running KB this fall with middle school age group. First off, I'm mind blown, never understood nor coached defense to this level so I'm super excited. With that said, I have my ideas but questions for those who have ran it

1. What position does the best coach or most knowledgeable coach work with? (will probably be me since I'm doing most of the reading)

2. What position group would you put your 2nd best coach, 3rd, etc..?

3. At minimum, how many coaches is needed to make it work? What is the ideal number of coaches?

4. Manual is hefty, do you do as it says and teach the BASE rules/read that will probably cover most situations and then rep in depth something that you scouted?

 

FYI, our league is mainly grab-bag offenses

 

 1. If you are the best coach try not to take a position. Roam to each position group and coach up the coaches....while coaching up the players. I spent a lot of time with my corner coach and OLB coach. They were new. I didn't spend a single session with our D-Line coach. I trusted him and he was/is a great coach.  

What I will add to this is we spent maybe 10-15 mins max during defense on each position in INDY's. Corners spent a ton of time with the OLB's learning how to kill sweeps. Safety/MLB spent 15 mins a day on stopping off tackle/Sweeps. Then Mike went with the D-line for 5-10 mins (My mike didn't need much training on working with the d-line.) Safeties then went to the Corner/OLB group. When Mike came back we kept running the same plays (game weeks we ran the opponents offense) Then the whole group minus d-line did pass coverage drops. 

I met with each on of my AC's in the pre-season alone for an hour at least regarding the defense. Key is telling them to only try and learn their position. Ignore everything else. They will see on the field how the puzzle pieces fit. Don't call it the KB. It's a hybrid 4-3. It is what you are running, end of discussion. You will see early on the ones whose heads are spinning. 

Have field days before the season. Run through all the drills. Have the coaches run through the drills and explain them to the other coaches. Make more of you.....you can't do it on your own. 

2. See above. 

 

3. 3-4. 4 plus you floating = gold. 

 

4. As long as you know the alignment/assignment of the defense you don't need to look at the manual until you have something come up that isn't working. Get the install videos. Take notes. 

Anytime you need help shoot me an email (I haven't been on here as much as in the past....work life has me very busy) 

Coachjoshv@yahoo.com 

Passio Bellator


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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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Joined: 2 years ago
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Posted by: @flexbone

Just read through the KB manual one time and plan to read through it 2-3 more times. This will be my first time running KB this fall with middle school age group. First off, I'm mind blown, never understood nor coached defense to this level so I'm super excited. With that said, I have my ideas but questions for those who have ran it

1. What position does the best coach or most knowledgeable coach work with? (will probably be me since I'm doing most of the reading)

2. What position group would you put your 2nd best coach, 3rd, etc..?

3. At minimum, how many coaches is needed to make it work? What is the ideal number of coaches?

4. Manual is hefty, do you do as it says and teach the BASE rules/read that will probably cover most situations and then rep in depth something that you scouted?

 

FYI, our league is mainly grab-bag offenses

 

I ran this defense with my 8U team last year. Although my kids are much younger than the ones you'll have, I thought you'd appreciate a point of view from someone who was in the same boat as you at this time a year ago.

1) I was the only one on staff who understood the KB last year. At the first practice, I went through it with both the kids and the two assistant coaches. After explaining it a few times, I assigned responsibilities to each coach (based on what they could teach). Before each game, I had to walk through assignments to make sure everyone was on the same page. I can still hear one of the coaches screaming and cussing because he thought the CBs should play run support only. After we won the last game of the year on a pick six, he changed his point of view 🙂

2) I would put the coaches where they can relate best to the kids. It raised a few eyebrows when the offensive line coach was working with the safeties and the running backs coach taught the defensive line, but that's what worked for us.

3) You can do it with just one coach (see my comment above about the corners). However, I'm a believer in the Unix philosophy (each program should do one thing and do it well), so if you have more coaches, they can focus in on a specific task, and do it well.

4) I used Coach Wilkins' install CD to install the defense (e.g. "This is where you line up, this is what you do"). Knowing the correct alignment covered every situation we encountered last season. As the season went on, I bugged some people in the KB forum about how to adjust to specific formations (e.g. I saw one team that used a nine-man line), but the installation CD was more than enough to get me started.

Good luck this season and keep us posted on how well you do!

Coach Terry

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17678
 
Posted by: @flexbone  

FYI, our league is mainly grab-bag offenses

 

Your league?  That's any youth league.  

But there's nothing really wrong with that.  Because those offenses are facing grab-bag defenses, that are also formation-only.  

And I've said this many times:

If you can block and tackle, it won't matter what scheme you run, you will be successful.

If you can't block and tackle, it won't matter what scheme you run, you won't be successful.

So focus on the execution of blocks and tackles, and you'll be fine.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8620
 

Interesting discussion.  The two most important points made were that the KB is Cover 4.  That's what separates it from Jack's 6-3.  If you never face Spread you can use Jack's "D" over mine and I'm sure by now he has incorporated Spread coverage (The U of W has successfully covered Spread with Cover 3 so it can be done.). 

Let me state that I have great respect for Jack's 6-3.  It was because he invented it that I created the KB.  I got the idea from him.  He just didn't have Cover 4 when Spread was becoming popular.  Now it is.  Time for the next generation defense - Cover 4.

If you never face 4 receivers you can use Jack's D.  If it didn't work I wouldn't have based my KB off it.  I have run Jack's 6-3 myself and it worked as advertised.  But I never faced Spread either when I ran it.  Nor is this a competition between me and Jack.  We've never discussed the topic once. 

The KB is designed around three things you won't find in any other defense.  They are:

1. The Kill Shot or otherwise known as "running the alley".  The safety runs the alley.  It was invented in 1959.  It worked so well no one ever un-invented it since.  So why not use it?  It was used against option teams to cover the pitchman.  In KB, it means not only is every possible option on sweep covered but covered for a loss. Three defenders have to miss for it to gain more than one yard.

2. The flexed DE does not have contain.  He has "B" gap even though he is aligned on "C" gap.  The reason he is flexed is to go from "C" to "B".  This screws up every blocking rule known to man.  An OT is either blocking down or on.  Blocking out is a fan block.  If you don't know what a fan block is, and the odds are you don't, you can't beat KB.  Even if you know what a fan block is your OT is almost certain to miss it.  Fan blocking a flexed DE is pretty much impossible.  The DE's assignment is pretty simple.  If the OT is looking at Mike, three step drive him outside arm free.  If the OT is looking at the DE, the DE hits "B" gap either by his Flex or by forearm shiver.  No OT can make this block.  That's it!  Lesson done!

3. The OLB has contain.  And he does it sneaky crafty.  Any running back running sweep is trying to break contain. Otherwise the play is off tackle.  Any runner that tries to break KB contain is in for a long day.  The OLB will use "ricochet" technique.  He's waiting for that runner to go one yard deep and two yards outside him.  And the runner will ALWAYS do this.  If he cuts inside, he'll run into the Safety running the alley (kill shot).  If he turns outside it's a war between him and the OLB for a 4 yard loss.  Even if the runner beats the "ricochet" to avoid the 4 yard loss, he now has to deal with the kill shot for a 2 yard loss.  And, even if he breaks the second tackle too, he still has to beat Mike to the sideline for only a 1 yard gain.  And, if he should beat Mike too, the corner should take him out of bounds for a gain of 4.  Considering the runner was just as likely to lose 4 yards due to "ricochet" the average gain is ZERO.  

The question of coaching points came up.  Gumby skipped "Mike never crosses the LOS".  It obviously worked for him but it means he had a pretty fast Mike.  The reason I installed "Mike never crosses" is because I was sent game film of a Mike who did cross.  The result was both Mike and the safety were running the alley for the kill shot.  Mike always missed and the safety tripped and fell over him.  So I told the coach to get Mike to run the sideline to limit the play to a 1 yard gain.  

The result?  Immediately the safety made the kill shot (for -2 yards) or Mike made the sideline tackle for +1 yard. 

I'm good with either one.

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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Coach TonyM
(@ramoody)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1736
 

You coach safeties, OLBs, Corner and Mike.   Mike needs to know his play with safeties. It doesn't take him long.  He needs to spend time with the Dline too.   Next best coaches DLine.  As has been said, DE play is crucial.  When you have don't have a beast at DE, you must force those kids to do their job.  I call the position D tackle as typically that is the type you get there, as the studs are backers, corners and safeties and that is all you have left.   You tell a kid that has played defensive tackle for a few years that he is now playing defensive end and you are gonna struggle to get him to play it correctly, at least that has been my experience.   Same thing with kids that have played safety.  That is why I call the safeties inside linebackers.   We do not have a safety or defensive end in my killer bee.  I have 5 backers, 2 corners, 2 tackles and 2 guards.  For the younger kids it probably will not be a problem as they are not conditioned to "Safety" and "Defensive End" play.   

I have the defense installed in two practices.  Not practice intensive at all.  Now half of those defensive practices are tackling drills.  We do tackling EVERY DAY...


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