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Double Wing at 5-6 years old

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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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The reason why I like this offense at this age over UBSW is you don't need speed. You just need toughness.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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The reason why I like this offense at this age over UBSW is you don't need speed. You just need toughness.

Why do you need speed in the ubsw and not the dw? Same philosophy.... 3 yards a carry. First you say you need a bunch of athletes to run dw then you say you don't need speed. I have ran both and the similarities, especially Dave's ubsw, are many.
As far as you center goes, I don't understand how you didn't have another option. It sounds like any player would of been a better option. The center ends up being your most important position if he sucks.


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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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I knew I would get a genius commenting on my post. First of all I never said the word athlete, I said talent. Talent does not mean you have to have speed. I'm speaking of this age group specifically . Since when did 3 yards a carry have anything to do with speed? It takes a player with toughness that can get behind blocks and take a few hits. Second: I don't know what leagues you've coached in but the one I coached in last season was brutal. Unlimited weight with High school rules, at all ages. If you ran the UBSW in this league with no speed you were toast. They're the #2 league in the nation in D-1 prospects. We're not comparing the two offenses in all ages just this age group. I played a team 2 years ago that ran UBSW  and he swore he didn't know who Dave Cisar was because I made a comment to him about it. They won our championship. Not in the league that I was talking about though. They had speed at the 5 and 6 age group. They were good until they went into a tournament with an all-star team and played a team that ran the Double Wing with talent and got stomped. I'm not saying it was the offense all I'm saying is they had the right combination and it can be done.


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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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On the center thing. Trust me when I say he was it. I tried multiple kids and he was the best out of the worst.


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jrk5150
(@jrk5150)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 6431
 

Uh...you might want to back up a bit and lay off the genius comments.  PSL stands for Port St. Lucie. That's where he coached with Jeff Miret, who is among the elite of the elite when it comes to youth football coaching. And where they won multiple Pop Warner national championships in an org that did it first come first served and played by the rules.

And they won a whole lot of games running both SW and DW.

So, he actually kind of knows what he's talking about.  Maybe.  Just a little bit.


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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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He may be good at coaching but he's not good at reading. I didn't say anything about athlete's​ or speed in the DW. Just because he won some games with another fella doesn't make him a genius.


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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Joined: 8 years ago
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He may be good at coaching but he's not good at reading. I didn't say anything about athlete's​ or speed in the DW. Just because he won some games with another fella doesn't make him a genius.

I think that it is being explained that you might want to not be defensive when coming here for advice. If you want "yes" men then this is not the place.

The advice that you received was serious and valuable. If you want to learn, you want to spend more time listening than talking.

Sincerely,
Another Not Genius


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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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I wasn't asking for advice I was trying to give it. He came at me first with something that was never said. Are we not reading what's going on here? Y'all are acting like I started it, I was called out first and I was defending myself. This is funny to me. It's like if we were all face to face and out of no where the guy sucker punched me and I defended myself and I get told you can't punch him back he won stuff.


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Pantherlinecoach
(@pantherlinecoach)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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We are not face to face. No one sucker punched you. Its a misunderstanding, on a youth football forum. Lol


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Millz
(@coachmillz)
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That's what I'm saying. But I'm the bad guy here.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Hey Guys, chillax  8)

Did you bother to read his banner in the opening credits?  ....I love this guy !

Who gives a F about what O and all this and whatever about that. Blah Blah Blah....This dude knows his banners.  🙂

Done deal.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4511
 

Hey Guys, chillax  8)

Did you bother to read his banner in the opening credits?  ....I love this guy !

Who gives a F about what O and all this and whatever about that. Blah Blah Blah....This dude knows his banners.  🙂

Done deal.

I was wondering if you'd pick up on "HEEERE KITTY KITTY!"  😀

I'd run DW with 5-6 year olds. Just sayin. I think CoachThrillz is on to something with the "just don't care" issues with 5-6 year olds. I noticed that with 2nd graders, several of the kids were still in the "Toddler" developmental stage. The answer to that is MOJO. You might not be able to get a 5 year old to care about football, but you can get him to care about TEAM and FAMILY. I think our dumb little rituals would be extremely important at the youngest age levels.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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Oh boy. Another poster getting his feelings hurt because someone dares questions his methods or thoughts. And you have the audacity to blame the kids for not being able to play the center position. That's on you coach. You coach how they play. They reflect exactly what you coach and allow in practice. Period.

I wasn't trying to be a dick. Really, I wasn't. I was just posting a view that was contrary to yours. Btw, Dave developed his offense for teams with limited talent and speed. It is designed to get 4 yards a carry. It is not designed to rip off 50 yard runs with your fastest guy at rb. This is the same theory as the dw. Grind it out and beat the opponent into submission. In case you didn't know, Dave used to run dw. He ran into many of the same issues as others who run the dw. The need for 4 pullers, the cut block, complex qb footwork to lead block. His version of the sw took what he loved about the dw and got rid of what he didn't. So the offense is the same philosophy as the dw and thar comes out of the guy who designed it. Ask him yourself.

As far as your shitty "genius" comments, whatever coach. I don't have a need to defend myself to you or anyone else. I know my strengths and I certainly know my weaknesses. The difference between you and me is that I can handle a little constructive critism or when someone calls out what I say as bullshit. I realized a very long time ago that I don't know crap about this game. Those that don't realize that are trapped in the not knowing what you don't know arena. Relax coach. I was not attacking you. It is very common for coaches to come on here and feel like they are being attacked. Especially of they win. And just because you win doesn't mean you can't do something better or doing it another way can't or doesn't work. So lets get past all that bs. You either post here to learn or you get eaten alive. Because there actually are some genius types here. There are a bunch of guys that are great at a few things. Many that are good and have lots of great pointers and fixes. None of us won't challange what another post if they think it is wrong or can be done better. One guy in particular who is a great coach but an absolute master of one phase of coaching could probably fix you center problem if the issue is what I suspect it is.


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Prodigy
(@prodigy)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2523
 

I think the OP's concerns are valid.  Double wing install for 5 and 6 year old kids could be pretty challenging.  My concerns would be: the toss and the motion most of all.  You *could* shift your WB's directly to the position where they are receiving the toss (* Coach JRK thing) or even just run out of that base alignment which would sort of look like a wishbone.  For me, I feel that the motion adds so much, especially at the youth level that I wouldn't want to go without it. 

A few things that I've picked up over the years has managed to fix our timing.  One of the biggest things is the rhythmic snap count (* Coach Michael / De La Salle).  By using a rhythmic DOWN...SET...HIT EVERY SINGLE TIME, every single drill, every single rep: it starts to turn into a clockwork sort of thing where the linemen are off of the ball on the H of hit and the wings begin their motion on SET and get the ball immediately after hit.

I think you'd need A LOT of reps on toss...like hours upon hours of nothing but toss right, toss left, toss right, toss left until you are having nightmares about the toss and the kids don't want to run another rep of toss.  I'd just work with the backs on this.  get the center QB exchange, QB footwork, WB motion and toss...over and over again.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17893
 

As far as you center goes, I don't understand how you didn't have another option. It sounds like any player would of been a better option. The center ends up being your most important position if he sucks.

The Center is crucial.  We are always careful about who we "hand the keys of the car to."  That guy's our Center.  And he's a Captain.  But you don't have to have much athletic skill for the position.  And without a Center, your offense is dead in the water.  It's the first player and position I look for because we can't do anything offensively without him.  What do I look for?  3 questions: 1) Does he want to play the position?  2) Does he want to play the position?  3) Does he want to play the position?  If he answers "yes" to all three questions, I can go with him.  Even a lousy athlete can play the position, if he's taught well.  When I coached youth ball players, the greater their talent, the more I left them alone.  The less talent they had, the more I coached them.  We always had good Centers and we always drilled them to death.  They arrived early and stayed late.  Had to.  It's what I required if they were going to be my Center and Team Captain.  They were tough and smart.  The one I have now will barely speak two words.  He never shows any emotion.  I check him daily for a pulse.  But he wants to be the Center and is willing to pay the price of toughness to be it.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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