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mmarra82
(@mmarra82)
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September 15, 2014 7:49 am  

Coach 11 year olds, first year running DW, have the BSG and BST pulling on our Toss play.  Having a tough time getting the BST to be effective.  You think I should leave the BST home to block instead of pulling.

Also, played against a team yesterday that blitzed the middle all day and got through, we use GOD blocking rules.  Any suggestions on how to defend this?


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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September 15, 2014 8:19 am  

How is he not effective? Not finding the first ugly inside, 2nd level? Too slow?

If worse comes to worst and you decide to not pull him, have you considered moving him to the play side and going "Heavy"? Jack Gregory calls it "OVER" or "Tackle OVER".

As for the blitz leakage, I struggled with that using GOD rules as well. I found it to be asking a lot for my pulling guard (UBSW) to get on his horse and MOVE while at the same time checking for leakage. Then again, I probably wasn't coaching it right. I really prefer TKO.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachJJ
(@coachjj)
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September 15, 2014 8:46 am  

When using GOD you really do need to spend quite a bit of time working on your linemen coming off of the double teams to pick up those LBs ... eyes inside and generally the inside man comes off for the inside blitz ... if the blitz is outside your double team then let the next double team inside man pick it up ... or if it far outside just let him get kicked out by the pullers ...

That being said, like Gumby I prefer to build my wall and let blitzers crash into it ... no changes penetration ...

I definitely think the 2nd puller (Tackle or TE) should be effective ... but effective is measured differently by different coaches ... I have had seasons where that 2nd guy never blocked anyone but often acted as a moving screen to keep my runner more hidden from the view of the badguys ... that for me is 'effective' ... 😎

Coach JJwww.CoachSomebody.com"Football may be the best-taught subject in American High Schools because it may be the only subject that we haven't tried to make easy."~Dorothy Farnan  Former English Department Chairman  Erasmus Hall High School - Brooklyn, New York


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Ringworms
(@totalbev)
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September 15, 2014 9:13 am  

Like JJ said, sometimes just running through the hole makes a vertical lane for the runner to get behind....I like my WB to push on the T and use him like a personal shield then cut off of him and hit a lane.

As for your run through lanes from LB's, I too use TKO and it was never a problem. I will say this though, we did try using double teams one week and I made it worse not running TKO(lack of coaching it right on my end) My problem was I taught hips together but what happened was my T was way stronger then my TE and the DB team went outside just because he could push better. Maybe if I would have coached it like Tim Murphy with a post man and a drive man I might of had better results.

Frank Maguire, Piedmont, OK


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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September 15, 2014 9:14 am  

If he is too slow, then try someone else at Tackle.  If the play is just too quick, then you can adjust some depth/motion to get that split second.

We don't pull our Tackles, just the guards.  We found that our footwork on our big guys wasn't there to have us pull both. 


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mmarra82
(@mmarra82)
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September 15, 2014 9:34 am  

Wow, lots of responses quickly...thanks.  The reason I have used GOD is simple, that is the only one I know right now being a young youth coach.  I have read about TKO, however, at this stage of the season, a switch by myself to a new blocking way is probably not the way to go.

Keep the suggestions coming though, I am learning.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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September 15, 2014 12:14 pm  

Yeah, don't switch mid season. Try pulling the te instead of the tackle. I think this will be the new norm, especially in hs. We pull just the guard and it works for us.
JJ talked about using combo blocks with the doubles in GOD. We have run GOD more like GOB with a double then backer for years. Most GOD coaches don't combo to the second level. It takes more time but is definitely worth it. And if you coach that you you will start to drift to the nasty ugly little world of zone blocking, because that is really what you are doing. Just a dumbed down version, which is the better version.  😛 Or at least dunbed down is often better. Anyway, I digress.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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September 15, 2014 12:16 pm  

Also, running GOD more like GOB kinda eliminates the need for that second puller. But you have to have good linemen to run GOB or GOD with doubles that climb. Good coaching can make it happen. For now, I would try to pull the te and see how that works.


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mmarra82
(@mmarra82)
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September 15, 2014 12:44 pm  

So Rob, what you think I should do on the base toss play is pull the BSG and the BSTE instead of the BSG and the BST?

Mike


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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September 15, 2014 2:30 pm  

So Rob, what you think I should do on the base toss play is pull the BSG and the BSTE instead of the BSG and the BST?

Mike

I think you should give it a shot. I would have to see your guys in person to really give you an answer. If your te is more athletic than your tackle then why not. Plus(and this is why I think more and more people are moving to this way of blocking power) you don't have to cut. Tackle can simply down block to cover the guard. We moved to just pulling the guard because we were getting flagged for illegal cuts. They weren't illegal but you won't win that argument. So we started just pulling the guard. At the time it never really occurred to us to pull the te in place of the tackle. We usually have pretty fast wings so the tackle pull we figured was just too long due to the speed of our wings. I still think that was the issue back then but we adjusted to make just pulling the guard work. The front side started comboing on the double to the backers. You start to stray away from true dw philosophy so I don't like to recommend it to guys that run a very pure dw system like Steve's. The cut is part of the dw punch in the mouth philosophy and very important to the offense. It slows the dlinemen down which helps the linemen win their block. We run our dw in a way that Markham would probably scratch his head at in confusion. It works but it isn't the same.


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Coach_O
(@rob_coach_o)
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September 15, 2014 9:03 pm  

We pull guards on toss and pull g and t on counters. Works for us.

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DoubleWingCoach
(@doublewingcoach)
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October 1, 2014 6:28 pm  

Use the GATE tag....

Ray 34 Power Gate...

GATE stands for Guard and Tight End... if it works make it the norm.... although that TE pulling might make a crashing DE go RIGHT into the middle of your power play....

Id teach my DE to crash if he reads your TE pulling..... it COULD cause problems against good coaches...


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coachtut
(@coachtut)
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October 15, 2014 1:42 pm  

When using GOD you really do need to spend quite a bit of time working on your linemen coming off of the double teams to pick up those LBs ... eyes inside and generally the inside man comes off for the inside blitz ... if the blitz is outside your double team then let the next double team inside man pick it up ... or if it far outside just let him get kicked out by the pullers ...

That being said, like Gumby I prefer to build my wall and let blitzers crash into it ... no changes penetration ...

I definitely think the 2nd puller (Tackle or TE) should be effective ... but effective is measured differently by different coaches ... I have had seasons where that 2nd guy never blocked anyone but often acted as a moving screen to keep my runner more hidden from the view of the badguys ... that for me is 'effective' ... 😎

I agree with everything said here. 

Coach Tut


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Coach
October 15, 2014 3:51 pm  

Ide check two things

Your wall... is it forming? Is it moving people toward the mid line?

Pulling technique...is he bucketing or comming flat? Is the guard too slow...does the tackle know to pull up with guard passed center.

We are running toss from I... my bst is a half step to a full step in front of the runner when he hits the hole. My bst knows to peak in and does a great job of screening lbs if he cant get a good block. Enough to create a 3-7 yards additional had he not been there

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
October 16, 2014 5:34 am  

Coach 11 year olds, first year running DW, have the BSG and BST pulling on our Toss play.  Having a tough time getting the BST to be effective.  You think I should leave the BST home to block instead of pulling.

2-point stance.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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