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Pulling vs Double Eagle


CoachTom
(@coachtom)
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Hi guys,

First post from me. I've learned a ton from this site by just lurking. I've been running dbl wing for 3 years now. I absolutely love it.  I'm up against the 1st team that runs a 5-3, but with the DTs heads up on guards with a NT. So wedge may suffer, but I'm salvating over power and C gap exposure. But... getting  my pullers clean is a concern. DTs could be a problem for the TEs on suoerman/crab block to pick up as the center is busy on the NT. I use TKO blocking, btw..


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Center takes the BS 2-Tech.

PSG takes the 0-Tech.

PST takes the PS 2-Tech.

BSG pulls.

BST fills.

BSTE pulls.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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If you're still Superman-blocking with your BSTE while using TKO, you are a chop-block-waiting-to-happen.  Either fill with your BSTE, fill with your BST, or Hinge with either.  

By using a Hinge technique, your pulls on Power will look identical to your pass sets meaning that you have no run/pass tells in your offense.  In addition, the Hinge keeps you away from a chop block, just as the fill-technique does.

Superman also hides less of your backfield action, while Fills and Hinges keep it hidden.  Superman/shoeshine is an archaic way to block backside.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Posted by: @coachdp

If you're still Superman-blocking with your BSTE while using TKO, you are a chop-block-waiting-to-happen.  Either fill with your BSTE, fill with your BST, or Hinge with either.  

By using a Hinge technique, your pulls on Power will look identical to your pass sets meaning that you have no run/pass tells in your offense.  In addition, the Hinge keeps you away from a chop block, just as the fill-technique does.

Superman also hides less of your backfield action, while Fills and Hinges keep it hidden.  Superman/shoeshine is an archaic way to block backside.

--Dave

This should be pinned in this channel

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @coachtom

I'm up against the 1st team that runs a 5-3, but with the DTs heads up on guards with a NT.

--Wedge may not suffer against a TNT front, depending on how you execute it.  Care to expound?  We have two Wedges (a regular one and a Power Wedge).

But... getting  my pullers clean is a concern. DTs could be a problem for the TEs on suoerman/crab block to pick up as the center is busy on the NT. I use TKO blocking, btw.

--If you're using TKO blocking, then why is your Center "busy on the NT?"  Your Center should be tracking backside which gives him the backside DT.  Your PSG takes their Nose Tackle and your PST takes their PSDT.  Any backside blocker (whether it's your Tight End or your Tackle) simply has to fill or hinge.  If your BST doesn't pull, he doesn't have to block backside DT, as your Center has him.  He simply fills his inside gap, or hinges (which looks like a pull) but then settles and blocks anything backside.  Your backside TE would have this same responsibility if he's the one who doesn't pull.  

--If it were ME and their DTs were a big concern, then I'd pull my BSG and BSTE leaving my BST a very short distance to fill while getting help from my Center who's also blocking backside.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Prodigy
(@prodigy)
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[quote]
If you're still Superman-blocking with your BSTE while using TKO, you are a chop-block-waiting-to-happen
[/quote]

This is how we ran it and yes we did pull flags for chops.  It's because the center has an assignment of man on, man away which; if the center is not covered he's stepping backside towards the superman/shoeshine TE (BSTE).  It's not something that's ever intentional but it happens.  Add this to the fact that a great majority of youth football coaches have no idea the difference between a chop block and a legal block below the waist.  Admittedly, I was one of these guys for my first several years of coaching.  I was fully convinced that any block below the waist was illegal, which it's not. 

The superman/shoeshine block is completely legal but it's also lazy.  The majority of the time we didn't encounter all too much scrutiny over this technique but there were some situations where it was called into question.  There were even some referees who seemed a little unsure about when this block was OK and when it wasn't.  During my time as a coach, it wasn't that big of an issue where I bothered to research and come up with a better answer for filling the hole.  What we were doing was legal, simple and effective...it is lazy though.  I can't say that it wasn't lazy.  I could have done something much better with my ends than have them dive across a hole.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Posted by: @prodigy

 

If you're still Superman-blocking with your BSTE while using TKO, you are a chop-block-waiting-to-happen

 

This is how we ran it and yes we did pull flags for chops.  It's because the center has an assignment of man on, man away which; if the center is not covered he's stepping backside towards the superman/shoeshine TE (BSTE).  It's not something that's ever intentional but it happens.  Add this to the fact that a great majority of youth football coaches have no idea the difference between a chop block and a legal block below the waist.

Yes, many take "chop" and "cut" as synonyms, which might've been harmless before the term "chop block" came into the game as a technical coaching, and then rules, term, but now causes confusion.  Also, they tend to take all cut blocking as the same, and some think it's whether the blocker leaves his feet that's what officials are looking for, rather than the point of contact.  That may be true in some leagues that explicitly outlaw leaving the feet to block.  It also doesn't help that in some English speaking countries a tackle below the waist in rugby is called a chop tackle.

The superman/shoeshine block is completely legal but it's also lazy.  The majority of the time we didn't encounter all too much scrutiny over this technique but there were some situations where it was called into question.  There were even some referees who seemed a little unsure about when this block was OK and when it wasn't.  During my time as a coach, it wasn't that big of an issue where I bothered to research and come up with a better answer for filling the hole.  What we were doing was legal, simple and effective...it is lazy though.  I can't say that it wasn't lazy.  I could have done something much better with my ends than have them dive across a hole.

To me lazy is positively good if it's effective.  There's negative value to extra effort to accomplish the same thing.  The primary attraction of shoeshining is that if your splits are narrow and you're pulling adjacent OL, that you have the potential of a 2-for-1 trade there.  I haven't been coaching it, but if I did I'd try to assign as clear a line of demarcation as I could between the center's blocking back area of responsibility and that of the shoeshining end.  Like not exactly MOMA but "man on, protect against gapper slanting your way".  It may be tough to snap and hinge, especially off the foot on the side of your dominant hand, but that would be the way.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @bob-goodman  I haven't been coaching it, but if I did I'd try to assign as clear a line of demarcation as I could between the center's blocking back area of responsibility and that of the shoeshining end.  Like not exactly MOMA but "man on, protect against gapper slanting your way". 

When we were still teaching the shoeshine, we changed our Center's assignment from MOMA to MOPA (Man On/Pivot Away), just to make sure that we couldn't be involved in a chop block.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @bob-goodman  I haven't been coaching it, but if I did I'd try to assign as clear a line of demarcation as I could between the center's blocking back area of responsibility and that of the shoeshining end.  Like not exactly MOMA but "man on, protect against gapper slanting your way". 

When we were still teaching the shoeshine, we changed our Center's assignment from MOMA to MOPA (Man On/Pivot Away), just to make sure that we couldn't be involved in a chop block.

--Dave

Ah, it figures I'd seen that hinge move mentioned somewhere.


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