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Tim Murphy SGDW (is this the correct one?)  

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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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August 29, 2019 7:58 am  

Become a better salesman.

Could not even Tim Murphy be a good enough salesman to convince his audience that leading the runner with the snap (whether by having the snapper look between his legs or by having runners able to run onto the same snap) is more efficient?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
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August 29, 2019 8:29 am  

Could not even Tim Murphy be a good enough salesman to convince his audience that leading the runner with the snap (whether by having the snapper look between his legs or by having runners able to run onto the same snap) is more efficient?

Good grief, Bob.  Try it in English next time.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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August 29, 2019 8:33 am  

In a perfect world, I think DTDW or UC Wing-T is the way I'd go but we live in a world where you got to be in shotgun and sell it to the kids/parents.

Then we live in different worlds.  Don't worry with "selling a scheme" to parents.  Sell yourself.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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August 29, 2019 10:54 am  

Bob Goodman, you seem like you know exactly what you're talking about with all those systems whereas, I on the otherhand, am clueless lol

In a perfect world, I think DTDW or UC Wing-T is the way I'd go but we live in a world where you got to be in shotgun and sell it to the kids/parents...

For what it's worth, I'm not even coaching right now, I just want to learn and be ready should an opportunity ever present itself. And the learning is also intended to be ran at high school level

As I learned last season, parents don't care what system you run as long as your offense scores points. My parents hated the balanced Single Wing last season until I scored 30 points in the season opener. No one said anything after that.

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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flexbone
(@flexbone)
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August 29, 2019 10:10 pm  

Then we live in different worlds.  Don't worry with "selling a scheme" to parents.  Sell yourself.

--Dave

Correct if wrong, but 1-2 years ago weren't you trying to get a high school program with the intent to run DTDW? Even with your intensive background/accolades were you ever given an opportunity? (BTW, I was really rooting for you too)


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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August 30, 2019 6:56 am  

Correct if wrong, but 1-2 years ago weren't you trying to get a high school program with the intent to run DTDW? Even with your intensive background/accolades were you ever given an opportunity? (BTW, I was really rooting for you too)

As a high school varsity header, we ran my DTDW.  At the 4 other high schools I've coached at, I ran the system that was specified by the varsity header, whether I was the OC or the JV header.

Here's what we've run at each:

KHHS: (Varsity Header) Double Wing
CHS: (Offensive Coordinator) Double Wing
GHHS: (Junior Varsity Header) Air Raid
EWHS: (Junior Varsity Header) Double Wing
MCHS: (RB Coach) Air Raid

Only at KHHS did I determine the scheme.  At the following 4 high schools, they ran what they ran and hired me for their system.  At CHS and EWHS, they'd already decided to run the Double Wing and then reached out to me.  At the 2 Air Raid schools, I have no idea why they hired me.  But I've never convinced a school to run something other than what they were already running.

My point is, if I'm the header at a high school, middle school or youth level, I'm not kowtowing to parents to try and make the scheme look like something it isn't.  When I arrived at CHS and EWHS, they had yet to run the DW.  I convinced the parents and players of my abilities as a coach.  I knew the scheme would speak for itself.  The tail doesn't wag the dog on my teams.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
August 30, 2019 7:00 am  

I think what you may be referring to is some of the interviews I went on, to prospective high schools.  One was willing to become a Double Wing team, if we were hired.  (We weren't.)  Two were not Double Wing teams, and while they weren't interested in running the Double Wing, they were willing to let us install some Double Wing plays.  I turned down both opportunities.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
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August 30, 2019 7:13 am  

My buddy Coach W (who sometimes makes an appearance on here), ran the Double Wing with me at EWHS.  When we were let go from there, we interviewed at other schools to see if we could run the Double Wing there.  We weren't successful in landing a spot (we turned down 4 offers due to none of them having a Double Wing interest).  I ended up coaching youth ball with him last year, with his Pop Warner team.  This year, I took the job at MCHS as the RB Coach on an Air Raid (yawn) team, while he took the job as the JV Offensive Coordinator at a brand-new high school.  He is implementing some Double Wing principles along with some of Coach Wyatt's Open Wing in the school's Spread offense.  They had their first game last night and he won, 33-30 on the game's final play.  This is a brand-new JV program that just won their first game in their first game of the season.  Their JV header was to be my DC when I was at EWHS.  I knew they could/would have success, but to do this in their first game is pretty cool.  I spoke with him on the phone last night and he was pretty excited and understandably so.  It's kind of like what we did at EWHS by taking a down-program and turning it around straight out of the gate.  I think he'll have great success there.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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DoubleWingCoach
(@doublewingcoach)
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December 5, 2019 9:05 am  

I think he might be alluding to the extra blocker you get with the QB leading in the double wing and the BB in the single wing.  Why run that type of offense with a QB who hands the ball on power plays?  That's my guess.

I had to run the Murphy Shotgun Double Wing 5 seasons ago because that's what the high school varsity coach mandated.  It's a good offense.  You get split flow action because the QB can also keep and run to the opposite side from the RB.

I do think the double wing is a much better offense because it is symmetrical and you can run every play's mirror opposite.  I think the major advantages to the single wing is it's simplicity in coaching and it's flexibility and forgiveness in personnel.

Why are we even talking about the differences??? You can have both.. I already combined the two systems and now I run both in one offense... Nearly unstoppable inside power/blast game and wedge from UCDW.  They put 10 men on the line??? Backup to shotgun and continue to wear them out with power... Or god forbid you trojan sweep that ass....... I've done the homework on it.... 🙂


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
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Virginia
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December 5, 2019 9:41 am  

Why are we even talking about the differences??? You can have both.. I already combined the two systems and now I run both in one offense... Nearly unstoppable inside power/blast game and wedge from UCDW.  They put 10 men on the line??? Backup to shotgun and continue to wear them out with power... Or god forbid you trojan sweep that ass....... I've done the homework on it.... 🙂

Because Bob asked the question 4 months ago and some of us unwittingly answered.

Neither of your two versions of double wing have the magic lead snap so you should answer Bob's question, but I use aspects of the shotgun double wing in my offense and don't lead snap either.  Tell Bob there's a lot of advantages to the indirect snap such as split flow misdirection.


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DoubleWingCoach
(@doublewingcoach)
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December 5, 2019 9:59 am  

Lead snap meaning????

Yeah i took a little break from the board so i'm trying to catch up for sure!!!

Coach B


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
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Virginia
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December 5, 2019 10:25 am  

Lead snap meaning????

Yeah i took a little break from the board so i'm trying to catch up for sure!!!

Coach B

Many Single Wing teams snap the ball inside of the tailback forcing him to be moving towards the hole to intersect the ball. 


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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New Jersey
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December 10, 2019 6:11 am  

Because Bob asked the question 4 months ago and some of us unwittingly answered.

Neither of your two versions of double wing have the magic lead snap so you should answer Bob's question, but I use aspects of the shotgun double wing in my offense and don't lead snap either.  Tell Bob there's a lot of advantages to the indirect snap such as split flow misdirection.

If by "indirect snap" you mean a handed snap ("under center"), then I agree, you can get great misdirection out of it.  I've been coaching wing T for a few years, and it's all about that misdirection because of how it hides the ball.  But you lose much of that ball-hiding effect if you first throw the ball a few yards to the player who's going to be doing that ball faking, partly because then most or all of the handoffs are going to take place in front of the player handing the ball off.  You lose that extra ball-hiding effect of the ball's being either behind the QB at the time of the exchange or the exchange happening on the players' hips while they're hip-to-hip.  In under-center wing T the handoff for counter is an "inside", front exchange, but in shotgun wing T it's like that for at least the majority of handoffs, maybe all of them.

The only reason that's been brought up in this thread that I consider a good one to install shotgun wing T or shotgun double wing T was the post about being under center with it and wanting to get away from blitzes.  Then yeah, since the shotgun variant would be an easy install, sure.  I just don't like the idea of it as your main package when there are better ways of doing what you want.

I see this a lot when someone modifies some component of an offense system and then it's like, if you're changing this (which was a major reason for doing it), then why keep all the rest instead of changing that too to conform?  My team took the reverse pivot out of the buck sweep series this past season, but kept it for belly sweep series, and it just seems like an irrational combination now: giving keys to the defense, reducing the ball-hiding effect in 20 or 30 series, yet not reducing what the QB has to learn.  Certain things just naturally go together.


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DoubleWingCoach
(@doublewingcoach)
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December 10, 2019 6:25 am  

Many Single Wing teams snap the ball inside of the tailback forcing him to be moving towards the hole to intersect the ball.

Ahhhhhh ok now I know what that is... I didn't know it was called anything.... I assisted with a Unbalanced Line single wing team back in 2010 and 2011 and we used that type of snap.... We had no snap count... Just ball moves... go.... and runner would move to intercept the snap...


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