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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
June 29, 2020 10:45 am  

Here are my coaching points for working with our Center in the Double Wing:

Our Center gets 150 snaps at every practice. (Three sets of 50 consecutive snaps without a miscue.) One set of 50 snaps at the beginning of practice, 50 more snaps in the middle of practice and the final 50 snaps at the end of practice. If one miscue occurs during each 50 rep session, the Center and QB start all over again from zero and work towards 50 again. The Center is always taking his first two steps with each snap. We teach the Center to get his 2 steps in as quickly as possible. We want him moving with the snap, not after the snap. Moving with the snap can be almost impossible for youth Centers UNLESS they are getting their 150 consecutive snaps per practice, because then they are also practicing the footwork with the snap. If the Center is blocking to his left, his left foot steps while his right foot pushes off. If the Center is blocking to his right, his right foot steps while his left foot pushes off. If the Center is blocking straight ahead, then I don't care which foot steps first. On the third set of 50 snaps, once they get to 30 snaps with no miscues, I bring over a Nose Tackle who goes 1-on-1 against the Center for snaps 31-40 trying to cause a fumble or glitch in the snap. If the Nose Tackle doesn't cause a miscue, I bring over another Defensive Tackle and they double team the Center from snaps 41-50. If the Center and QB make it to 50 (actually, 150 now) without a miscue, they are finished and the two Defensive Linemen have to run laps/do up downs/backwards bear crawls, etc. for not causing a miscue. If the Defensive Linemen manage to cause a miscue, the Center and QB start over from zero to get to 50 again (this time without a defender). I choose two different Defensive Linemen at each practice. When I coached 7-9s, we had two fumbled exchanges in 3 years of games. If you want to practice a rain-simulation, take a rubber football and submerge it in a bucket of soapy water and do the snaps. If you want to practice Under Center and Gun (we do both), we'll do 50 Under Center, 50 in Gun, and 25/25 both. In each 50-rep session, the Center practices his down block footwork with 15 rep steps to the right, 15 rep steps to the left, 20 straight ahead.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17055
North Carolina
High School
June 29, 2020 10:47 am  

The most common problems with Gun snaps are inaccuracy and slow, arcing snaps. These can be corrected through coaching and repetition. But bad snaps from Gun are usually either lost fumbles at worst and big lost yards at best. When Under Center, you'll need to determine whether you want to teach the snap with a twist, sideways or as a dead-snap tilt. The dead-snap tilt works best if you pull backside linemen because it allows the QB to stand deeper behind the Center (and out of the way of pullers) because more of the football will protrude behind the Center's butt when he makes this type of snap. A twist usually requires the QB to hug up under the Center closer, which can be good for misdirection, but not so good for pulling as the QB has to move quicker to get out of the way of the pull. If you have any questions regarding these techniques, or if I need to make it clearer then give me a call. Sometimes these things are hard to visualize when they're written.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
June 29, 2020 10:50 am  

Our QB is usually much deeper than other QBs when Under Center, because we want to keep him out of the way of the pullers. So his arms need to be straight in front of him, instead of bent. This means we have to snap the ball end-over-end so the ball can get to his hands. Both of this thumbs or together, side-by-side pressing the underside of the Center's butt.  

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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Head Coach
June 29, 2020 11:35 am  
Posted by: @coachdp

...The dead-snap tilt works best if you pull backside linemen because it allows the QB to stand deeper behind the Center (and out of the way of pullers) because more of the football will protrude behind the Center's butt when he makes this type of snap..

--Dave

How deep should the QB stand with the Dead Snap? I had them at 3 yards in the Single Wing, but wasn't sure if that should be the correct depth for the Double Wing (the Coach Murphy / DoubleWingCoach version to be more specific).

And, for those that don't know... I love using pullers 🙂

Coach Terry

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
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June 29, 2020 1:15 pm  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

How deep should the QB stand with the Dead Snap?

As deep as possible but still able to get his hands under Center and his arms are straight.

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 29, 2020 1:22 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

How deep should the QB stand with the Dead Snap?

As deep as possible but still able to get his hands under Center and his arms are straight.

I think he's referring to the shotgun snap. "Dead Snap" is the new buzzword used by college and NFL coaches to describe what Wyatt has been doing for at least 15 years.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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June 29, 2020 1:27 pm  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

I think he's referring to the shotgun snap. "Dead Snap" is the new buzzword used by college and NFL coaches to describe what Wyatt has been doing for at least 15 years.

Got ya.  We use the same "tilt" regardless of whether we're snapping the ball in Gun, or Under Center.  The only difference is whether the ball is hitting the Center in the butt, or whether it's airborne.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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June 29, 2020 2:05 pm  

Thank you @gumby_in_co, that was what I meant.

I picked up this terminology reading an article about Michigan a few years ago. Coach Drevno referred to it as the dead snap and said it was easy enough to teach a 5-year old. Since my son was 5 at the time, I Googled the term, and found a video that linked to the snap that Jock Sutherland used at Pittsburgh. I had my son try it out and he picked it up very quickly. Two years later, I was teaching my centers to snap it that way.

From now on, I'll refer to it as "Coach Wyatt's snap" or "Coach Sutherland's snap" so that I don't confuse anyone. Very sorry for the mix-up!

Coach Terry

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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June 29, 2020 3:32 pm  

DP, when you use that technique for a hand-to-hands snap, do the QB's thumbs touch the same face of the ball as the fingertips do?  Or does the point of the football come thru between the thumbs and the forefingers?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
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June 29, 2020 8:03 pm  
Posted by: @bob-goodman

DP, when you use that technique for a hand-to-hands snap, do the QB's thumbs touch the same face of the ball as the fingertips do?  Or does the point of the football come thru between the thumbs and the forefingers?

Bob, the middle of the ball hits the thumbs first, as the fingers clamp around the ball. The point of the ball should be at the palm of the hands.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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bignose
(@bignose)
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Posts: 915
June 29, 2020 9:23 pm  

Quick coaching point:

In the photo above the QB has his thumbs even with one another. This can allow the hands to separate a bit on the snap.

I prefer to have the QB stagger his thumbs, so that the thumbnail of the left hand is even with the "notch" in the joint in the right thumb. This allows the hands to fit a little tighter together. 

 

BTW, I hate the two handed end over end snap. I was taught this in high school in the middle 1960s!

You snap the ball with both hands between your legs, and your jaw is an open target! 

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 29, 2020 10:13 pm  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

Thank you @gumby_in_co, that was what I meant.

I picked up this terminology reading an article about Michigan a few years ago. Coach Drevno referred to it as the dead snap and said it was easy enough to teach a 5-year old. Since my son was 5 at the time, I Googled the term, and found a video that linked to the snap that Jock Sutherland used at Pittsburgh. I had my son try it out and he picked it up very quickly. Two years later, I was teaching my centers to snap it that way.

From now on, I'll refer to it as "Coach Wyatt's snap" or "Coach Sutherland's snap" so that I don't confuse anyone. Very sorry for the mix-up!

Coach Terry

 

No sweat.  I was made fun of by youth and HS coaches (and their fans/followers) for years for using that snap. I've probably had 5 refs over the years who said it was illegal (mainly for the grip) then made up "rules" on the spot to prove their point. Then, I read that same article you're talking about and suddenly, it's a genius innovation.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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June 30, 2020 10:08 am  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @bob-goodman

DP, when you use that technique for a hand-to-hands snap, do the QB's thumbs touch the same face of the ball as the fingertips do?  Or does the point of the football come thru between the thumbs and the forefingers?

Bob, the middle of the ball hits the thumbs first, as the fingers clamp around the ball. The point of the ball should be at the palm of the hands.

--Dave

OK, that's consistent with what you've written upthread.  With the arms straight ahead, the elbows would be straight and you practically couldn't get such an angle that you could overlap the thumbs, so they can only touch as you've shown.

That would be a problem with many young players, because they couldn't get around the ball enough with hands their size, which means they'd be separating their thumbs as the ball arrives.


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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June 30, 2020 11:07 am  

Bob:   See the Picture, Be The Picture!   Stop over analyzing.

 

ARGH 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 30, 2020 11:39 am  
Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @bob-goodman

DP, when you use that technique for a hand-to-hands snap, do the QB's thumbs touch the same face of the ball as the fingertips do?  Or does the point of the football come thru between the thumbs and the forefingers?

Bob, the middle of the ball hits the thumbs first, as the fingers clamp around the ball. The point of the ball should be at the palm of the hands.

--Dave

That would be a problem with many young players, because they couldn't get around the ball enough with hands their size, which means they'd be separating their thumbs as the ball arrives.

We use the same technique under center. First, we teach the QB to get his pinkies as far apart as possible. Second, we teach them to push their hands forward into the C on "hit". This prevents them from bailing and from changing their hand position (thumbs coming apart) as the ball is on it's way. The main reason behind this snap is that with young players, there often isn't enough room between the C's thighs for a football to fit sideways.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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