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MiamiHuskers
(@harmony)
Bronze
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 493
September 19, 2011 6:17 pm  

They like to run towards WB's but will counter or throw as well. How would the 4-3 align vs:

-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

I know CB/DE on LTE, T&T in B Gaps, SS on strong side---what else?

Also:

----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R


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Loftdawg
(@loftdawg)
Copper
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 82
September 20, 2011 1:07 pm  

I'll take a stab because it helps me to learn this as well, but it's all in the manual.

------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Depending on the relative size/stength of the TE and the far WB, you may want to switch your C and SS on that side.

DC, how'd I do?


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MiamiHuskers
(@harmony)
Bronze
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 493
September 20, 2011 4:49 pm  

I'll take a stab because it helps me to learn this as well, but it's all in the manual.

------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Depending on the relative size/stength of the TE and the far WB, you may want to switch your C and SS on that side.

DC, how'd I do?

Remember the right TE is in a 3-4 yard nasty split---also the S linebacker has flat responsibility on pass so what happens if WB goes up the seam? Does the E/C still split the right TE and come inside the nasty split?


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8620
September 20, 2011 8:09 pm  

Also:

----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R

                                                            WS              SS       
                                            W              M          $
                                                CE    T        T  E          C   
----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8620
September 20, 2011 8:10 pm  

I'll take a stab because it helps me to learn this as well, but it's all in the manual.

------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Depending on the relative size/stength of the TE and the far WB, you may want to switch your C and SS on that side.

DC, how'd I do?

🙂

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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Loftdawg
(@loftdawg)
Copper
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 82
September 21, 2011 7:34 am  

Remember the right TE is in a 3-4 yard nasty split---also the S linebacker has flat responsibility on pass so what happens if WB goes up the seam? Does the E/C still split the right TE and come inside the nasty split?

So it actually looks like this?

-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T---TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Is the inside WB stacked behind the TE or are they both outside of him?

Either way, with the TE nasty split, it essentially becomes a Trips Formation. So swap the SS and Sam. Sam now has  the inside WB and SS has the outside WB.

I believe at this point all three (C, Sam and SS) are in man coverage and the flat belongs to the Mike backer. Obviously communciation is key and Sam needs to tell Mike his responsibility has changed.

If the TE and WB are stacked, you could swap SS and C to create a stronger presence in the C gap. Just depends on whether they tend run more sweep or power in that formation.

One suggestion, DC has revised this defense as he mentioned to include a zone coverage for spread formations (Killer B). It might be worth the $50 to buy it as its getting rave reviews from those that have it and it gets you access to the Killer B forum.

Loftdawg

-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T---TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q


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MiamiHuskers
(@harmony)
Bronze
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 493
September 21, 2011 8:23 am  

So it actually looks like this?

-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T---TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Is the inside WB stacked behind the TE or are they both outside of him?

Either way, with the TE nasty split, it essentially becomes a Trips Formation. So swap the SS and Sam. Sam now has  the inside WB and SS has the outside WB.

I believe at this point all three (C, Sam and SS) are in man coverage and the flat belongs to the Mike backer. Obviously communciation is key and Sam needs to tell Mike his responsibility has changed.

If the TE and WB are stacked, you could swap SS and C to create a stronger presence in the C gap. Just depends on whether they tend run more sweep or power in that formation.

One suggestion, DC has revised this defense as he mentioned to include a zone coverage for spread formations (Killer B). It might be worth the $50 to buy it as its getting rave reviews from those that have it and it gets you access to the Killer B forum.

Loftdawg

-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T---TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

No 1 WB is inside the TE and the other is outside of TE:

---------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------TE
----------------------------------------------------------WB-----WB
---------------------------------------------Q-R


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Loftdawg
(@loftdawg)
Copper
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 82
September 21, 2011 11:24 am  

No 1 WB is inside the TE and the other is outside of TE:

---------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------TE
----------------------------------------------------------WB-----WB
---------------------------------------------Q-R

Then use the alignment DC gave above as it's basically the same. QB becomes #2 Receiver and WS has responsibility for him. No stone on the nasty split TE. M follows R. R steps forward, M steps forward. R runs to his left to fake protect and get a screen, M follows him and W is there to help. If R motions left pre-snap to open side, WS follows him and C stays on his stone of TE, M now has Q. If R motions right pre-snap to a Quad look, M follows R and WS steps up to take spot he vacated.

Weak spot, similar to last time, is if R fakes a run left and QB pulls the ball and runs up the middle with line fan blocking. WS has to be aware of this and step forward if QB puts ball in R's belly. Since he has no coverage responsibility (except for QB) he is free to do this. RDE must read and come off his stone to attack R and the LDE (who is not stoning) must attack the QB. Now that you have shown the defense, you have to expect your opponent to have film and to attack the middle this way. Critical to work the DTs this week on the importance of their technique and role in shutting down the A and B gaps.

Other option is to have WS mirror R no matter whether it's pre or post snap and let M devote all his energy to shutting down the middle.  If R is their biggest fastest most explosive threat, this may be the route to take. If Q makes more plays with his feet and R is more of a true protector in that role, let M move with R.

Believe this is correct. Again, anyone who is running the D full time (or the author), please correct any mistakes on my part.


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MiamiHuskers
(@harmony)
Bronze
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 493
September 24, 2011 3:15 pm  

                                                            WS              SS       
                                            W              M          $
                                                CE    T        T  E          C   
----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R

Looked more closely at this alignment-----doesn't that go against the theory of as many or more defenders to each side? There are 6 to the right vs 5 defenders?


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Loftdawg
(@loftdawg)
Copper
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 82
September 27, 2011 5:13 am  

Looked more closely at this alignment-----doesn't that go against the theory of as many or more defenders to each side? There are 6 to the right vs 5 defenders?

You're right. Good catch. How both this?

                                                                WS          SS       
                                            W              M          $
                                                CE    T        T  E          C   
----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 9406
Coach
December 7, 2011 5:16 am  

Cb should be on number 1 ide say "sL" is 1

Olb splits differance of the 2 off men for flat drop(robber)

Ss is fine in his alignnent

Ide call inside stunt here and have ws take fb

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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CoachOCD
(@coachocd)
Platinum
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 4144
August 22, 2012 3:48 pm  

hey I thought the C & E dont stone when theres a defender outside them?

ref to below alignment, aint this wrong?
------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8620
August 30, 2012 11:50 am  

You're right. Good catch. How both this?

                                                                WS          SS       
                                            W              M          $
                                                CE    T        T  E          C   
----------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-------T
-----------------------------------------------------------SL-----SL
------------------------------------------------Q--R

🙂

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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DumCoach
(@dumcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8620
August 30, 2012 11:52 am  

hey I thought the C & E dont stone when theres a defender outside them?

ref to below alignment, aint this wrong?
------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Two mistakes for me.  That's it.  No more Budweiser!

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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Loftdawg
(@loftdawg)
Copper
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 82
September 9, 2012 7:47 pm  

hey I thought the C & E dont stone when theres a defender outside them?

ref to below alignment, aint this wrong?
------------------------------------------------WS
----------------------------------------W------------M---------$-SS
-------------------------------------------CE--T-------T--EC
-------------------------------------------TE-T-G-C-G-T-TE
---------------------------------------------------------------WB-WB
--------------------------------------------------B---Q

Why not stone?

DC - point of stone is to deny free release of TE and to create a negative bubble in the backfield to either force B deep or push him back into middle.  Why not do that here?

They could attempt to hook Sam, SS, DE and C but that still leaves Mike to clean up and there's very little chance they're blocking all of those players perfectly.
Seems like the benefits of stone outweigh the risks in this formation.


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