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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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August 14, 2019 9:36 am  

For which fundamental?

—Dave

For tackling.  If hitting with the shoulder is really far down on the list, what is at the top of the list with respect to how you teach tackling?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 9:56 am  

For tackling.  If hitting with the shoulder is really far down on the list, what is at the top of the list with respect to how you teach tackling?

We'll always start first with "fit" (and work backwards).  Fit is simply the most important aspect because "fit" is "contact" and that's what we're wanting to get players used to/comfortable with.  "Fit" is everything from hand positioning to stance in the "fit" to rising on the contact.  But we're careful to keep from getting too specific, at this point.  What we want is our players concentrating on fit and what it feels like/should feel like.  From there, we work backwards in our progression, most importantly focusing on speed.  Because the faster the attacker, the bigger the contact should be, IMO.  So before we've even broached "tackling," we've spent time on speed development/form running/foot work.  And that would be an "ear/pocket" technique, as well as foot-fire drills.  Without them, players run as if they have cement blocks on their ankles, so what difference does it make if they can tackle when A) they aren't fast enough to catch anyone, B) Their speed is so slow, we can't get the type of big hits in contact that we're looking for?  But I can count the number of coaches (high school & youth) who teach speed and form running on one hand.  Jack Gregory is a master and when I had the opportunity to learn from him, it revolutionized how good we were defensively.  We went from being a defense that was skilled in the use of hand tools, to being adept at using power tools, lathes and blow torches.  In addition, we avoid anything even remotely close to a breakdown/feet buzzing/or gather like the plague.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 10:01 am  

In our Executioner Drill, we used to start with a tackle dummy and a player before then transitioning to 2 players.  Now, we just start with 2 players.  The tackle dummy just slowed us down, although we should still use the dummy in Twin Cannons because we got a lot of mileage out of it.  USAF shows a lot of contact with shields/pads/dummies and some of which I could probably use in our backwards progression but never ahead of fit/drive/takedown.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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Posts: 3251
August 14, 2019 11:51 am  

We'll always start first with "fit" (and work backwards).  Fit is simply the most important aspect because "fit" is "contact" and that's what we're wanting to get players used to/comfortable with.  "Fit" is everything from hand positioning to stance in the "fit" to rising on the contact.  But we're careful to keep from getting too specific, at this point.  What we want is our players concentrating on fit and what it feels like/should feel like.  From there, we work backwards in our progression, most importantly focusing on speed.  Because the faster the attacker, the bigger the contact should be, IMO.  So before we've even broached "tackling," we've spent time on speed development/form running/foot work.  And that would be an "ear/pocket" technique, as well as foot-fire drills.  Without them, players run as if they have cement blocks on their ankles, so what difference does it make if they can tackle when A) they aren't fast enough to catch anyone, B) Their speed is so slow, we can't get the type of big hits in contact that we're looking for?  But I can count the number of coaches (high school & youth) who teach speed and form running on one hand.  Jack Gregory is a master and when I had the opportunity to learn from him, it revolutionized how good we were defensively.  We went from being a defense that was skilled in the use of hand tools, to being adept at using power tools, lathes and blow torches.  In addition, we avoid anything even remotely close to a breakdown/feet buzzing/or gather like the plague.

--Dave

Got it.  I have seen you do that in action. 

In my mind, we are talking about the same thing.  We start from fit as well, but that fit is a shoulder into the near thigh with the wrap.  From there, we work backwards and add speed. 


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 12:27 pm  

We start from fit as well, but that fit is a shoulder into the near thigh with the wrap.  From there, we work backwards and add speed.

But why it works for you is that you know that's what's important to you.  If it weren't important to you, and you were just teaching "by the book" because "that's what USAF said to do," it would be a waste.  That's one of your "main things."  As a result, you can be good at it.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 12:34 pm  

We start from fit as well, but that fit is a shoulder into the near thigh with the wrap.

Ohhhh....well that's a great way to incorporate it!  That way, it's not an additional teach, but one you started out with at the introduction.  That's excellent, Eric.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachQ
(@coachq)
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August 14, 2019 12:39 pm  

Shout out to Dave for the talk today!  I appreciate the help over the years brother!


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 12:51 pm  

Shout out to Dave for the talk today!  I appreciate the help over the years brother!

Quincy, it's always good to spend time with you.  Good football discussions with a good friend!

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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August 14, 2019 4:36 pm  

But why it works for you is that you know that's what's important to you.  If it weren't important to you, and you were just teaching "by the book" because "that's what USAF said to do," it would be a waste.  That's one of your "main things."  As a result, you can be good at it.

--Dave

Now I get what you are saying. There was someone wise who taught me a while back to know “why” we teach something a certain way. If you don’t know why, then you should rethink it.

When I started, “heads up” was the big thing. Tried it for about 2 weeks before I realized it stunk. Smaller kids getting trucked and that “buzzing” is useless. That is when I got into rugby style tackling.

I never taught the heavy roll stuff and some of the “drive for 5” with higher points of contact didn’t work. So, that is where I wanted it simple - near shoulder to near thigh and that is what we repped and said every day. It started at fit and went into every tackling drill. That was what was important.

Don’t know if it is as good as it could be, which is why I keep asking questions and trying to learn.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
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Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 14, 2019 6:04 pm  

There was someone wise who taught me a while back to know “why” we teach something a certain way. If you don’t know why, then you should rethink it.

--Well I dunno how wise I am, but it's always been a personal maxim.  I was never going to drill, teach or install something that I didn't understand.  And if I did install it, it was because I knew why I was doing this.

When I started, “heads up” was the big thing. Tried it for about 2 weeks before I realized it stunk. Smaller kids getting trucked and that “buzzing” is useless.

--I agree.  But don't let USAF know that.  They are the governing body.  😉

So, that is where I wanted it simple - near shoulder to near thigh and that is what we repped and said every day. It started at fit and went into every tackling drill. That was what was important.

--Good stuff.

Don’t know if it is as good as it could be, which is why I keep asking questions and trying to learn.

--You and me both.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Seabass
(@seabass)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1219
August 14, 2019 8:59 pm  

My experiance has been same/same.

Wheres your head?  Answer back hip.

If hes comming from straight ahead? Answer, pick a side and "cut" him side ways. * we only attack half a man, so its "hawk tackle" with out that silly roll.

It ends up looking like half a tackle and half a bronco mount.

It’s not any more complicated than that.


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Coach TonyM
(@ramoody)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1729
North Carolina
Middle School
Head Coach
August 15, 2019 12:52 am  

Shout out to Dave for the talk today!  I appreciate the help over the years brother!

Dang Quincy,

I have to echo that.  I called Dave right at 5 for some help and as always he was right there..


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 15, 2019 2:24 am  

Dang Quincy,

I have to echo that.  I called Dave right at 5 for some help and as always he was right there.

Tony, the funny thing is you both called me about the same thing.  Glad we were able to chat!  It had been a while.

—Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachQ
(@coachq)
Bronze
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Posts: 314
August 15, 2019 3:19 am  

Dang Quincy,

I have to echo that.  I called Dave right at 5 for some help and as always he was right there..

How’s it going Tony?  I will call you to catch up soon!


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17075
North Carolina
High School
August 16, 2019 1:35 pm  

Here's a post I copied/pasted from a coach on the Huey board re: USAF.  What he says is pretty interesting and accurate.

--Dave

"We have to take NFHS courses to coach in our state (NC), and one of those courses this year was the USA football contact system (Tip of the Spear / Bridge and Pillar). I like the Hawk tackle stuff (the original video that is) and thought that the Pillar stuff seemed interesting enough. Since the video advertises you get 3 free system if you go make an account, I went over and checked it out.

It says to start with the "Coil" video set since it's the foundation. Fair enough. I turn on the first video and it's a 2 minute video about the athletic stance. Ok. I skip ahead a couple of videos down to a drill video... and it's a minute and a half of how to run with a tennis ball between your hands + buy a piece of equipment to do it. Ok, not going to do it, but no biggie. It's for all levels, so I figure I'll move on to the next section which hopefully is a little more advanced. I move to the next section (Uncoil) and watch a little video about how to move your hips, again... ok sure pretty basic but again, it's for all levels. I go find something about the actual pillar technique, but that was it. That's the entire trial. What a waste of time. To subscribe to this would be $100.

If their mission was really "to make a better, safer game" shouldn't this stuff be free? What an absolute load of crap that my state makes me watch what amounted to a commercial for them under the guise of safety. I already was skeptical since they've tried to re-brand tackling at-least 3 times in the last few years (From Heads-Up, to Hawk Tackling to "5 Fights"). I thought it'd be worth spending 30 minutes learning a new technique. Nope. Another scam from an organization who is trying to promote safety."

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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