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Sharkbait
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February 16, 2019 7:29 am  

What is the difference in techniques between a 5,6i and 6 techs on the d-line?


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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February 16, 2019 7:42 am  

What is the difference in techniques between a 5,6i and 6 techs on the d-line?

Start at the Center and count towards the outside from 0.

Even numbers are head up.  (0 tech=head up on C, 2 tech=head up on G, 4 tech=head up on T, 6 tech=head up on TE, 8 tech=head up on WB outside TE)

Outside numbers are outside shades (1 tech=outside shaded on C, 3 tech=outside shaded on G, 5 tech=outside shaded on T)

Inside shades are an even number with an "i" in front of it. (2i=inside shade on G, 4i=inside shade on T)

Now, that's the standard count system.  Using the term "6i" is something all coaches would do, because the old Bear Bryant count system oddly named an inside shade on the TE a "7 tech" and then an outside shade a "9 tech."

As far as the actual technique these players will use once the ball is snapped, for simplicities' sake you can reduce that to teaching all outside shades to play one way and all inside shades to play a different way.  Head up techniques can play several different ways, depending on what you want to teach them.


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Sharkbait
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February 16, 2019 10:58 am  

As far as the actual technique these players will use once the ball is snapped, for simplicities' sake you can reduce that to teaching all outside shades to play one way and all inside shades to play a different way.  Head up techniques can play several different ways, depending on what you want to teach them.

I guess this is more what I'm asking. I get the count system and alignments, just wanted to dive into the differences. I see that the d-linemans alignment makes a big difference at older levels when the splits are wider, but what about when the oline splits are a foot or less, what is the difference between a 5 and a 6i if they are both playing the c gap?


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Coach Correa
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February 16, 2019 12:01 pm  

I guess this is more what I'm asking. I get the count system and alignments, just wanted to dive into the differences. I see that the d-linemans alignment makes a big difference at older levels when the splits are wider, but what about when the oline splits are a foot or less, what is the difference between a 5 and a 6i if they are both playing the c gap?

Basically it boils down to style of play if your head up you can be a 2 gap team or a movement team if your shaded youll play that gap your shaded too so thats were the techniques come into play. Its funny you mention this because next presentation was gonna be M-50 -STACK and 1st segement was gonna be all this stuff. Theres alot more to it also 4 down teams all that means much more.

Head Coach Tito Correa New Britain Raiders 14-U


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Sharkbait
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February 16, 2019 12:23 pm  

We are running a 4-2-5. Our d-ends are c gap defenders they are usually in a 6 tech, but sometimes in a 5 or 7.  I want to learn more about coaching them up on their technique for their alignment. Coaching points for a 5, 6i, 6, and a 7 all with c gap responsibilities. Footwork, block destruct from different angles, Do those techniques change if they are foot to foot vs 2 foot splits.  Looking forward to the presentation Tito.


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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February 16, 2019 6:47 pm  

We are running a 4-2-5. Our d-ends are c gap defenders they are usually in a 6 tech, but sometimes in a 5 or 7.  I want to learn more about coaching them up on their technique for their alignment. Coaching points for a 5, 6i, 6, and a 7 all with c gap responsibilities. Footwork, block destruct from different angles, Do those techniques change if they are foot to foot vs 2 foot splits.  Looking forward to the presentation Tito.

5 tech vs open side
6tech or 7 tech vs closed your preference

Each have a similiar responsibility...6 tech can 2 gap better or post up te, 7 is more a chip the te and go in the back field.

These dont change vs large splits. You play off of a man not a space

Least from my experiance.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 16, 2019 6:48 pm  

If you really want to get into it that far I suggest John Levra's Book on Coaching the D-Line.  A lot of HOW depends on WHAT you are doing.  Specifically, Run vs Pass. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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February 17, 2019 4:20 am  

I guess this is more what I'm asking. I get the count system and alignments, just wanted to dive into the differences. I see that the d-linemans alignment makes a big difference at older levels when the splits are wider, but what about when the oline splits are a foot or less, what is the difference between a 5 and a 6i if they are both playing the c gap?

The difference between a 5 and a 6i (aka 7) tech can be a little more than just playing C gap.

A 5 tech is going to attack the T and extend him out while keeping his hips outside the T.  He's also in a pretty good position to stunt across the T's face into B or even A gap (odd front teams call that "long sticking").

A 6i/7 tech, while still a C gap player, is going to be attacking the TE.  This disrupts the TE's release off the line, which will disrupt his timing on pass patterns but, even more importantly, will help keep him from blocking down cleanly on the LB.  The trade off, of course, is if you give the defense a B gap bubble the T now has a clean release to LB, so depending on how you have your DTs set that may cancel out protecting the LB.

As far as technique goes... they're pretty much flipped, for starters. You should align shade hand down, so if you're in an outside shade, then your inside hand--the hand that's shaded on the OL, will be the one in the dirt.  That means that an outside shade will have his inside hand down and his inside foot back.  An inside shade will have his outside hand down and his outside foot back.  The foot that's back is the one you step with--which affects where the DL's momentum goes on his first step.  He'll need to attack the near shoulder of the OL.  This is to help prevent being washed down if you're playing with inside leverage and help avoid being fanned out or reached if you're playing with outside leverage.  Eyes should go into the gap he's responsible for.

In terms of what the differences work out to be from an Xs and Os standpoint... obviously you're giving them leverage into one gap or the other, but there are some other things to consider.

An inside shade has excellent technique to shoot gaps inside and chase pullers on runs away.  They present a real problem to OL on pass protection and base blocks.  However, it's hard for an inside shade to stunt across a down block, so you can't really rely on them to stunt outside from that alignment.  The cardinal sin for an inside shade is getting scooped--he cannot let himself ever get scooped and his position makes it tough for the OL to do that.  A 2i will very seldom get trapped or read, but a 4i or 6i/7 tech will probably see a heavy dose of both, but they won't see as many double teams unless it's a zone team comboing them from the inside-out.  IMO, a 2i is a pretty forgiving technique to teach young DL who want to fly upfield for those reasons.

An outside shade, on the other hand, has outside leverage, so he's in better position to keep his outside arm free to play contain and box everything to the inside if you want to do that.  He can still spill, as well.  Outside shades also have an easier time stunting to the inside, simply because of how blocking schemes work.  The cardinal sin for an outside shade is getting reached--he's got to maintain that outside leverage and never, ever let the OL get his hips around him to hook him.  Outside shades, particularly the 3 tech or a 5 tech DE when there's a TE in the game, will also see quite a few more double teams so they need to be able to hold up there.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 17, 2019 5:18 am  

One of the real questions I have is; why did you chose a 4-2-5 base?  What about this alignment convinced you to use same? 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Sharkbait
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February 17, 2019 6:06 am  

This is great stuff, keep it coming, I need to feed my brain.  I didn't choose the 4-2-5, my org did. They have chosen the systems and I am trying to learn as much as I can about it. Being a newer tackle football coach, 3 years tackle and 6 years of flag, I am glad they have systems picked already. I am able to focus on learning those systems first, before I go down the rabbit hole of which I prefer. Coach JC can probably articulate why they picked the 4-2-5.


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CoachDP
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February 17, 2019 7:38 am  

I didn't choose the 4-2-5, my org did. They have chosen the systems and I am trying to learn as much as I can about it.

I'm not an advocate of orgs determining particular schemes for coaches unless they are going to be responsible for training those coaches in the system.  Did they tell you you're going to run a 4-2-5, without providing any support?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 17, 2019 7:46 am  

OK.  Just spitballing out loud.  With 6 showing in the Box (4+2), most Spread teams believe they can Run at you.  That being said, EVERY Power team will try to exploit the numbers advantage they can bring against 6 people.  Hence I asked the question of why.  I still say the vast majority of youth teams will Run 75% of the time or more.  Ergo you need to establish Run Techniques first.  That entails Getting off the ball and penetrating to 1 yard depth.  Then you need to answer the Containment question with your DE's.

You also need to learn how to Morph from a 4-2-5 into a 4-3 or 4-4 against Run Heavy teams.  That means one or two of your "DB's" are able to drop into the Box and play like a Linebacker or Edge Rusher, depending on how you establish Contain. 

Again, just spitballin. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Sharkbait
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February 17, 2019 12:51 pm  

I'm not an advocate of orgs determining particular schemes for coaches unless they are going to be responsible for training those coaches in the system.  Did they tell you you're going to run a 4-2-5, without providing any support?

--Dave

Well I think that is the plan. They will answer questions and explain, but there is no training or materials handed out. This is something we are starting to do with the offense, but have yet to implement with the defense. I have started to create a manual for new coaches and assistants to get on the same page. I don't want to jump topics to the politics of our org and why they do things though. I am really enjoying the info you guys are giving me on d-line specific techniques.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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February 17, 2019 4:32 pm  

They will answer questions and explain, but there is no training or materials handed out.

That's jacked up.  I'd hate to come in with schemes I already know and they tell me, "Gee Dave, you're not running the Double Wing or the Split 4-4 here.  You're going to use schemes you don't know.  And we won't train you in them.  We'll just answer any questions.  Good grief...

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 17, 2019 4:52 pm  

I agree 100% Dave.  However, he is not the decision maker. He is, in fact, reaching out to be able to Coach the kids under the premise provided. Kudos for that!  🙂

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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