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Run68bone
(@run68bone)
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June 24, 2013 10:48 am  

I watched a video on Tom Landry, the Hall of Fame Cowboys coach, and they spoke about his 4-3 Flex Defense. I don't know how to go about learning more about this defense. Any input on the defense or how to find out would be great.


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mahonz
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June 24, 2013 11:25 am  

http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/board,135.0.html

or PM Dumcoach for his Killer Bee.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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June 24, 2013 11:35 am  

Yup!

Clark has Good material for the Flex. 

;D

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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CoachDavis
(@jetscoach)
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June 25, 2013 3:49 pm  

http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=699.0;attach=760

You may want to look at this as well?

Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is everything. -- Vince Lombardi


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CoachJohn
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June 25, 2013 3:59 pm  

Below is a link to Clark's Version of the defense, The DC Dallas Flex Defense.

http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/topic,48.msg163.html#msg163

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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CoachJohn
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June 25, 2013 4:26 pm  

Here is a good article from 1987 I found.  It gets more into depth on why the defense was conceived and ran.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1987/08/01/Is_There_Any_WayTo_Explain_Footballs_Most_Confusing_Convoluted_Intellectually_Taxing_Perhaps-No-Longer-So-Great_Defense.aspx

The following playbook of the 1968 49er's is probably as close to the defense as you might see.  Dick Nolan coached under Landry in Dallas and has been said to be the only other coach to try and run the defense.

www.scribd.com/doc/27493309/1968-San-Francisco-49ers-43-Flex-Defense-285-Pages

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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Pearls of Wisdom
(@pearls-of-wisdom)
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June 25, 2013 6:29 pm  

I watched a video on Tom Landry, the Hall of Fame Cowboys coach, and they spoke about his 4-3 Flex Defense. I don't know how to go about learning more about this defense. Any input on the defense or how to find out would be great.

I HAVE it (FROM Landry), but it is far too complicated!!!

Phone if you are really interested in discussing it:  804-740-4479 (between 11 AM & 6 PM/Eastern).  It could not be described typing here in 75 years!

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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DumCoach
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June 27, 2013 11:53 am  

Here is a good article from 1987 I found.  It gets more into depth on why the defense was conceived and ran.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1987/08/01/Is_There_Any_WayTo_Explain_Footballs_Most_Confusing_Convoluted_Intellectually_Taxing_Perhaps-No-Longer-So-Great_Defense.aspx

In addition to it being designed to defend Lombardi's "Green Bay" sweep, the article made the following two points:

1) "The middle linebacker became responsible for making most of the tackles, because while the other players were tying things up in their gaps, he would be free to hunt down the runner. (Stay with me-this paragraph is about to end.) Theoretically, if everything in the Flex worked, three players would always be at the point where the offense attacked."

2) "With the more passive Flex, which keys for the run first, there is little pass rush except on obvious passing downs. Linebackers in the run-oriented Flex find themselves with too little time to get back on pass plays, and cornerbacks are pitted against receivers in one-on-one situations."

The above is pretty accurate as far as the basic principal is concerned.  I adopted it for youth play as the Lombardi sweep is a pulling sweep not too unlike a youth SW sweep where the runner has the choice of busting it inside or outside the block on the DE. Any offense that's pulling is going to have trouble with Landry's "Flex" (unless they make special adjustments which Lombardi did in the 1967 "Ice Bowl".).  Since most of the youth system offenses out there are pulling linemen, "Flex" is a good starting point to beat them.  In Flex, usually the DT and DE are staggered and in even techs.  But they didn't "two gap".  They slanted and the blocker had to guess which way.  And the flexed lineman could be assigned to a gap two players away.  So the entire OL was on the lookout for their area because, while there might not be anybody in their gap now, there could be after the snap.  By point:

The middle linebacker became responsible for making most of the tackles:  For the most part, the offensive line was too occupied with blocking the stunting defensive flexed front to get to Mike.  It was up to the center to get him and he usually missed.  So Mike is flowing, unblocked, back and forth across the field as a roving ambassador of justice (or injustice).  My Killer Bee uses this principal.   

Three players would always be at the point where the offense attacked:   True.  My Killer Bee also brings two unblocked linebacker types to the ball. 

The "flex" keys for the run first:  That's true.  It does.  But, since most youth teams run first, they play right into the strength of the "Flex".  Landry dealt with the pass by either calling a tremendous pass rush or by going to a "nickel/dime" prevent and Killer Bee does all three.

The cornerbacks are pitted against receivers in one-on-one situations: True.  This happens a lot.  But it's not necessarily a problem.  The corner is positioned to be able to cover his man for "X" seconds, which is also the same number of seconds it takes the front four to reach the QB.  Dallas was pretty good at putting QB's on their backs.

Now I stayed with these basic principals in both my DC Dallas Flex II defense (Which uses four different fronts) and my Killer Bee.  But I stayed away from his reads (All of them but one - flexed man mirrors man over).  Landry just got way too complex (especially for his safeties).  You could have four reads in the same play!  I narrowed that down to one by looking at other coaches systems.  I never once taught a Tom Landry read  beyond Mike and the four DL's. 

The guy's system is so complex that, when he drew up a defensive play, you could look at it and have no idea what it's doing or trying to accomplish.  The arrows showing where the players were going might have been added by a four year old for all you can tell.  Landry was trying to defend absolutely everything from one defense.  As a result, no one could explain the defense - not even Landry (Landry once wrote an article on his "D" and, after I read it, I looked for what he wrote on game film and never saw any of it once.). 

So, in all three Landry D's I created (one from "Flex I" - My DC Pro 4-3 - and two from "Flex II" (Killer Bee and "DC Dallas Flex"), I took his formation, purpose, and one sentence of instruction and left the building to figure out the rest myself.   

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."


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Pearls of Wisdom
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June 27, 2013 2:11 pm  

In addition to it being designed to defend Lombardi's "Green Bay" sweep, the article made the following two points:

1) "The middle linebacker became responsible for making most of the tackles, because while the other players were tying things up in their gaps, he would be free to hunt down the runner. (Stay with me-this paragraph is about to end.) Theoretically, if everything in the Flex worked, three players would always be at the point where the offense attacked."

2) "With the more passive Flex, which keys for the run first, there is little pass rush except on obvious passing downs. Linebackers in the run-oriented Flex find themselves with too little time to get back on pass plays, and cornerbacks are pitted against receivers in one-on-one situations."

The above is pretty accurate as far as the basic principal is concerned.  I adopted it for youth play as the Lombardi sweep is a pulling sweep not too unlike a youth SW sweep where the runner has the choice of busting it inside or outside the block on the DE. Any offense that's pulling is going to have trouble with Landry's "Flex" (unless they make special adjustments which Lombardi did in the 1967 "Ice Bowl".).  Since most of the youth system offenses out there are pulling linemen, "Flex" is a good starting point to beat them.  In Flex, usually the DT and DE are staggered and in even techs.  But they didn't "two gap".  They slanted and the blocker had to guess which way.  And the flexed lineman could be assigned to a gap two players away.  So the entire OL was on the lookout for their area because, while there might not be anybody in their gap now, there could be after the snap.  By point:

The middle linebacker became responsible for making most of the tackles:  For the most part, the offensive line was too occupied with blocking the stunting defensive flexed front to get to Mike.  It was up to the center to get him and he usually missed.  So Mike is flowing, unblocked, back and forth across the field as a roving ambassador of justice (or injustice).  My Killer Bee uses this principal.   

Three players would always be at the point where the offense attacked:   True.  My Killer Bee also brings two unblocked linebacker types to the ball. 

The "flex" keys for the run first:  That's true.  It does.  But, since most youth teams run first, they play right into the strength of the "Flex".  Landry dealt with the pass by either calling a tremendous pass rush or by going to a "nickel/dime" prevent and Killer Bee does all three.

The cornerbacks are pitted against receivers in one-on-one situations: True.  This happens a lot.  But it's not necessarily a problem.  The corner is positioned to be able to cover his man for "X" seconds, which is also the same number of seconds it takes the front four to reach the QB.  Dallas was pretty good at putting QB's on their backs.

Now I stayed with these basic principals in both my DC Dallas Flex II defense (Which uses four different fronts) and my Killer Bee.  But I stayed away from his reads (All of them but one - flexed man mirrors man over).  Landry just got way too complex (especially for his safeties).  You could have four reads in the same play!  I narrowed that down to one by looking at other coaches systems.  I never once taught a Tom Landry read  beyond Mike and the four DL's. 

The guy's system is so complex that, when he drew up a defensive play, you could look at it and have no idea what it's doing or trying to accomplish.  The arrows showing where the players were going might have been added by a four year old for all you can tell.  Landry was trying to defend absolutely everything from one defense.  As a result, no one could explain the defense - not even Landry (Landry once wrote an article on his "D" and, after I read it, I looked for what he wrote on game film and never saw any of it once.). 

So, in all three Landry D's I created (one from "Flex I" - My DC Pro 4-3 - and two from "Flex II" (Killer Bee and "DC Dallas Flex"), I took his formation, purpose, and one sentence of instruction and left the building to figure out the rest myself. 

FLEX "FRONTS" are called according to backfield sets.  I have their D-Notebook, & it is probably CLOSE to 500 pages!

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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Michael
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June 27, 2013 3:25 pm  

FLEX "FRONTS" are called according to backfield sets.  I have their D-Notebook, & it is probably CLOSE to 500 pages!

So THAT is what they mean when they say it's a reading defense.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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Pearls of Wisdom
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June 28, 2013 3:41 am  

So THAT is what they mean when they say it's a reading defense.

They are ADJUSTMENTS.

See ATTACHMENTS:

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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coachnick
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July 2, 2013 7:30 am  

man that is awesome---a letter from the great tom landry!!! wow!!!


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coachnick
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July 2, 2013 7:32 am  

it does seem like information on the dallas flex is hard to come by


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ZACH
 ZACH
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July 2, 2013 8:00 am  

So THAT is what they mean when they say it's a reading defense.

Hahahaha

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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