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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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I honestly watched one of our youths team run Draw like no ones business, not 3 or 4 years ago!  To your point a Draw is just another Sucker Play.  

 

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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@youth-coach My team did it in high school. Our line was small... I was the second biggest player on the line at 149 pounds. However, we ended up playing some really strong opponents (for reference future NFL-er's Jeff Saturday and Ricky Sutton played in this region, along with a number of future college players). Coach Wilson knew we couldn't drive block him, so he had us basically push them where they wanted to go. The QB dropped back and put the ball in the FB's belly. This allowed us to keep the chains and clock moving...

Did it work? Well, let's just say I won more games in my first year of coaching than I did in three years on the varsity.

But, it can be done. The question is what Coach Mahoney said... is it worth the effort? And I would lose my Single Wedge badge if I didn't say, "Let's run 16 Power just one more time ;-)"

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @youth-coach

I caution that very often a blind rush to the backfield means exactly that and they miss the ball carrier completely as he runs by them.  You can also become a sucker for a Draw play! 

Scott, in all my years of coaching ball, I have never seen a Draw play at the youth (or high school) level.  You're making us out to be even older than we really are! ? I also think you're giving more credit to the offense than what's warranted.

I saw it in my first year of coaching.  It was the 14U team of the club I was coaching in, and their HC that year had just switched from coaching adults.  The QB held the ball straight up like a trophy in both hands over his head before handing off.  As I saw that gesture, my thought was, "What an obvious draw play!"  It didn't do well.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

The QB held the ball straight up like a trophy in both hands over his head before handing off.  As I saw that gesture, my thought was, "What an obvious draw play!"

Wait...so will anyone tell me again me why I should be concerned about the draw play?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @rpatric

I just kinda lean towards Dave's line of thinking as it pertains to youth football. I'm going to execute my defense and let the offense figure out how to stop it.

Which is taught very much like how we teach our offense.  And making sure they know where they're supposed to be by the end of the play.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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tiger46
(@tiger46)
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@mahonz

My very limited experience with executing a draw play came from running the Monster Offense with the 8u's.  21/22 Drop Wedge.  Wedge (which we used a lot) was about as close as we could come to pass blocking at that level and we didn't need it for that.  I changed the blocking to a variation of Slant Left/Right.  Same track blocking but the O-line would space themselves roughly 8 inches apart instead of being foot-to-foot. We called it 'zone'. ? The 2 back's drop step, the WB's meshing in the backfield and, the O-line's spacing & blocking caused enough of a delay to open running lanes. Maybe it was more of a pseudo-draw play. But, the end result was about the same. It was one of two happy accidents that we got lucky to 'discover' while running that offense- 'Zone' spacing/blocking being the first. If I had been a better HC/OC, I'd have used that play more often.  But, truthfully, anytime that I saw an opportunity in the middle all I could think was, "Wedge!"

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ”  ― Frederick Douglass


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Folks:

My intent was simply to point out that an uncontrolled, mad dash into the backfield is a recipe for failure.  It implies the adage Even a blind Squirrel finds a nut sometimes.  Most have rebutted that the aforementioned mad dash is not what they are doing.  

 

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @youth-coach

My intent was simply to point out that an uncontrolled, mad dash into the backfield is a recipe for failure.

Scott, I don't even think that the uncontrolled mad dash is prone to failure at the youth level.  Reason being, it generally wreaks havoc with whatever the offense was trying to do, and they certainly weren't trying to execute a play with 15 players on their side of the LOS.  Does defensive pressure make the defense vulnerable in areas?  Absolutely.  As does blitz.  However, most youth offenses have a hard enough time executing their own plays with no pressure.  And with nobody running a successful Trap or Draw to counteract defensive pressure, it makes defensive pressure a low-risk, high-payoff maneuver.  That's the primary reason for so many youth orgs dictating defensive fronts and alignments; it's to help the offense be able to execute a play while holding the defense at bay.

--Dave 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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tiger46
(@tiger46)
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@youth-coach

I'm more in line with your way of thinking. It depends on the match-up, though. With offenses running 'Fast Kid Left/Right' it doesn't ever seem to work all that well when a slow DT breaks through a mediocre O-line and charges straight at the fast kid. The DT usually just gets burned laterally.  

 

 

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ”  ― Frederick Douglass


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rpatric
(@rpatric)
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@tiger46 you're absolutely right. It doesn't work well when you send a slow DT after a fast kid. That's why my DTs and DEs are not big slow players. We use quick kids and spend lots of practice time making them quicker. Fast kid getting the ball has to contend with them as soon as he gets the ball a lot of the time. 


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Coach Kyle
(@coach-kyle)
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I always thought it was because they liked the 9 tech DE, and when they googled 53 they saw 303. 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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tiger46
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@rpatric

I'm not criticizing any coaching styles. In fact, my favorite DT's are small & quick. I always try to match our faster players against our O-line in practice. It speeds up our OL's and gives them a workout. It also gives our small DT's confidence that they can beat bigger players.  They're free to attack the RB anywhere and everywhere.  But, we've had to put larger slower players in at DT, also.  I prefer that the slower DL's (regardless of size) penetrate to behind the OL's heels and get lateral as soon as fast kid breaks to the outside.  Help to keep the RB from being able to turn it upfield. No DL runs directly behind any DL in front of them.  Helps prevents cutbacks.  That's why I mentioned that it all depends on the match-ups. 

--------------------------------DE-------->

-----------------------------DT------RB----->

--------------------------DT--------->

-----------------------DE----------->

 

Whether they're big or small; practice! Practice! Practice! 

Sorry to all if I'm derailing a thread.  Hopefully, we can get back on topic. As to the 3-0-3 alignment; I guess that it's good to push plays to the outside as long as that's what you've prepared your defense to do. Spill & Kill.

 

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ”  ― Frederick Douglass


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Posted by: @coachdp

I beg to differ, Bob.  It is exactly how most youth defenses play.  How else do you explain their defensive linemen running directly into the waiting arms of the offensive linemen?  Their "coach" will tell you that's what he teaches, so that their Linebackers can "run free."  Which is patently ludicrous, because as you pointed out, the offensive line isn't going to present much impediment to Linebackers.  There are very few youth teams out there whose worst athletes (their offensive linemen) can block an opponent's best athletes (their Linebackers) in space.  Can it be done?  Yes.  Is it done?  Never recall seeing it, ever

The team of 10Us I coached with in 2010, we did sometimes use a keep-the-LBs-clean philosophy, and it made sense.  We were dominant that year, but still had some scrubs who had to play the entire first half.  On the DL in our 4-3, I taught them to shoeshine down and take out 2 OL.  This created such a pile, stifling any runner in that area, yet since the LBs knew when it was coming, they still could get thru it to disrupt plays.


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