I'll start by saying Defence is definitely my weakness. I played offence growing up, coached it from the beginning, as Head Coach I pray I can find an assistant that is capable of running the D. I want to dictate, not react.
Having said that I've always used schemes with boxing Ends for contain purposes. We play 9-man ball so it's most often a 43 alignment with stand-up ends that contain from outside the tackles.
We've really struggled with it this year. I've rotated a few guys through that position and only one player this year has been able to keep his contain consistent enough for my liking. I'm always interested in hearing what other coaches do and find success with. At this level and only 9-man defending outside run is key. So let's hear your systems.
Box = death by c gap against good teams.
Learned this the hard way.
A couple of alternatives for your "9":
1) Change you end from Force to "Spill" meaning crash the DE at ball and flush the ball carrier deeper and outside. The CB would be your Contain/Force player and your OLB would fill the alley between.
2) Slide contain. Have DE stop at 1 yard depth, to fill the C gap, keep outside arm free, then flow with ball carrier laterally when he bounces out.
We use both depending on ability of DE and opponent rb skill.
Boxing technique can be difficult to untrain.
The longer I coach, the lesser I know.
@troy #2 is pretty close to how we teach it. I step outside T/TE (so he can't reasonably block you). Take 3 hard steps up the field, putting him at 2-3 yards deep.
Funny thing is it's now Power or anything inside that kills us. The runners beat us on the outside still as all but this one player gets sucked inside too easy, or takes too sharp an angle towards the backfield, giving up the edge too easy and the outside run against one corner and maybe the OLB if he reads it well and gets out there quick enough. We were not blessed with much natural talent this year so we only have 1 very good LB and one disciplined DE. We are essentially the "B" team for the org and are doing the best with what we got. Maybe we're not teaching or emphasizing it emough but all 3 or 4 players that have played that End spot has struggled. I can't see how we possibly haven't emphasized contain by the Ends enough.
The runners beat us on the outside still as all but this one player gets sucked inside too easy, or takes too sharp an angle towards the backfield, giving up the edge too easy and the outside run against one corner and maybe the OLB if he reads it well and gets out there quick enough. We were not blessed with much natural talent this year so we only have 1 very good LB and one disciplined DE. We are essentially the "B" team for the org and are doing the best with what we got. Maybe we're not teaching or emphasizing it emough but all 3 or 4 players that have played that End spot has struggled. I can't see how we possibly haven't emphasized contain by the Ends enough.
I don't know a thing about 9-Man football, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt.
Our DEs don't contain. That is the responsibility of the OLB and CB. Our DE is usually a "disruptor" who lines up 1x1 outside of the TE and banana-routes his way to the ball-carrier from the outside in. The OLB and CB slow-play and are essentially guarding the outside gate. Stopping the Sweep in youth football is essentially the simplest and easiest play to stop. It is a race to the outside, where (if your OLB and CB are positioned correctly) your defenders have already won because they are already in the location that their ball-carrier is hoping to get to. Most Sweep-running offenses do a lousy job of blocking sweep, so it usually becomes a 1-Back offense to the outside. Most youth defenses are horrific in that they mimic the same width of the offense, or allowing their cover backs to be run off by wide outs without providing any run support. The Number 1 rule that I have for defenders is to never pursue from the inside/out. Always pursue from the outside/in.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
Some other ideas we've tried...
Run a twist where the OLB lines up in c gap. DE crashes down into c gap at snap and OLB twists out to contain.
You can also continue to "box" the DE at 3 yards but stunt a backer through the c gap just to create havoc there and get the runner to bounce out.
You could put an MPP on TE and just have him crab or cut the TE every time which should plug the c and free you OLB.
We've also blitzed our safety through the strong c gap frequently since no youth teams can throw to the seam with any reliability.
We run a 50 so we've often shifted our DTs out to the c gaps instead of the b gaps. Then run taps game and shoot both a gaps with nose and MLB.
We've tried all these things and they've all helped us.
The longer I coach, the lesser I know.
Rather than an x and o solution, you might get more bang for your buck just rep-ing your DEs against a sweep-or-power drill with a rb and a blocker and a TE over and over and over and over. We've done that as well. Let the kids figure out how to defend it with the skill set they have. They are pretty resourceful.
The longer I coach, the lesser I know.
@coachdp I wish it were as simple as being in the right position, but you still gotta tackle the ball carrier! That has been a weak area as well. Being the B-team (but playing in the same division as the A-team and other top teams in the league)we are not blessed with raw talent. So even when our corners and OLB's do get in good position a tackle isn't always made.
We are half way through our season so not looking for a magic pill to fix our problems this year. Just thinking about if tere's a better more proven way of containing.
@troy Yup, definitely good thoughts.
We have both a small roster and coaching staff. Haven't been able to run a lot of 9 on 9 in practice (we have a roster of 18, always 1 or 2 away or sick at minimum). But might be worth doing as our next tackling session even with the kids who play DT or LB, maybe someone emerges with a knack for it we've overlooked.
I was thinking a 3 or 4 man drill. 1 RB. 1 TE/T. 1 crack back nasty or a FB. 1 DE.
Set some cones or bags up to restrict where the runner can go. Then stand behind DE and tell the rb to run through c gap cones or sweep cones. Then tell which OL to block the DE: TE/T reach or kickout, nasty cracks, or if you have a FB in drill, he kicks out or seals. Rep, rep, rep, rep, rep until the DE figures out how to deal with each scenario. Most kids don't respond to highly technical coaching. Just tell them what the goal is, give them a couple tips like widen their base and where to aim, etc, and they'll figure out a way.
Been there. It won't fix in one session. The second session they'll probably look even worse. Just stay at it and it will improve with reps. My $0.02.
The longer I coach, the lesser I know.
...we have 20 players and play 11 man. 0-3 miss every practice. When we want a high intensity team session, we run half on half: right side O vs left side of D and vice versa.
The longer I coach, the lesser I know.
@coachdp I wish it were as simple as being in the right position, but you still gotta tackle the ball carrier! That has been a weak area as well.
--Then it's not a contain issue, it's a tackling issue. Sounds like you should be asking how to teach tackling instead of how to teach contain.
Being the B-team (but playing in the same division as the A-team and other top teams in the league)we are not blessed with raw talent. So even when our corners and OLB's do get in good position a tackle isn't always made.
--Again, then that's a tackling issue. And if you can't tackle it matters little about your contain, or the various ways to contain. Talent, by the way, has little to do with tackling. Tackling is a basic fundamental that can be executed by any player who is taught correctly. The single biggest issue in youth football as to why tackles aren't made is because the defenders find themselves out of position; that is, either they lined up incorrectly, or moved out of position after the snap.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
I'll preface this with I've never coached 9 man ball.
Generally speaking I never have a man with his hand in the dirt responsible for force/ contain (easy force).
Primary contain is based on coverage. If it's a zone your curl/flat player is contain the interior 2nd level players push the runner outside toward the force and the deep players has the alley. That generally how you play contain with our "easy" force.
If you run man most use the sideline as the contain defender or "spill and kill " this demands all your players be responsible for a player with those who don't or can react fast enough chasing the ball toward the sideline , strong the play out and or force the runner back with interior pressure.
Figure out your coverage and re read what I wrote, it may help you with you issue.
Best of luck!
I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.
@coachdp I wish it were as simple as being in the right position, but you still gotta tackle the ball carrier! That has been a weak area as well.
--Then it's not a contain issue, it's a tackling issue. Sounds like you should be asking how to teach tackling instead of how to teach contain.
Being the B-team (but playing in the same division as the A-team and other top teams in the league)we are not blessed with raw talent. So even when our corners and OLB's do get in good position a tackle isn't always made.
--Again, then that's a tackling issue. And if you can't tackle it matters little about your contain, or the various ways to contain. Talent, by the way, has little to do with tackling. Tackling is a basic fundamental that can be executed by any player who is taught correctly. The single biggest issue in youth football as to why tackles aren't made is because the defenders find themselves out of position; that is, either they lined up incorrectly, or moved out of position after the snap.
--Dave
Thanks Dave... wasn't really looking for a critique on my ability to teach tackling. The topic was to explore other ways to scheme contain on defence. My bad for including more information than needed I guess. So if you have nothing constructive to add to the question I posed then save your red ink for another topic.
That was my attempt at being constructive: for you to understand what the root of your problem is. Makes little sense to want to discuss contain when your contain personnel can't tackle. Besides, I already offered how we approach contain in an 11-man scheme.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
That was my attempt at being constructive: for you to understand what the root of your problem is. Makes little sense to want to discuss contain when your contain personnel can't tackle. Besides, I already offered how we approach contain in an 11-man scheme.
--Dave
The title of the topic "How to contain" has nothing to do with tackling. If the answer was as easy as "tackle better" that'd be great, but it's not.
I've often wondered if there was a better way to protect against the sweep than the way I've done it. Regardless if I had a good tackling team or not. The thoughts of using the OLB and corner as the outside protector is worth looking into ad thinking about more. Problem I see with that is things like reverse and those big cutbacks all the way across the field we often see at the youth level. Do you really tell your backside OLB not to persue any play away from him? Seems he's in a much better position to make a tackle on a power or sweep away from him than the backside End.
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