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CoachJohn
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June 21, 2013 8:04 am  

To Piggy back on Coach Rob O's Topic "Safest way to tackle" ( http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/topic,13728.0.html) I was looking at the Presentation Mahonz linked in his "WOW" Thread and Daniel reposted in Rob's. Daniel's reply graciously pointed me in the direction of pages 24-29 of the 2nd Presentation where it begins to illustrated a "Profile" tackle and it got me thinking about how the average youth player can be expected to tackle based on his abilities.

In the attached pdf I drew (rather quickly) angles or areas of approach to a tackle at 15 deg. segments.  The intent of the drawing was to see how or what kind of tackle can be expected as the angle of pursuit widened.

From what I have taught coached and seen on the field, USA Footballs Heads Up tackling progression can only be performed up to a certain degree of approach.  Now, I am not down playing USA Football as I am committed to it, will teach it and believe it is the best tackling method needed for tackling ball carriers straight up or nearly straight up (Red and Blue areas)  Any pursuit outside that area normal turns into an angle tackle - Head across (green and partial orange areas) and from my experience a wider pursuit looks like the "Profile" tackle shown in the presentation.

The question is shall we teach three approaches to a tackle based on the angle of pursuit and impact?

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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ZACH
 ZACH
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June 21, 2013 8:12 am  

To Piggy back on Coach Rob O's Topic "Safest way to tackle" ( http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/topic,13728.0.html) I was looking at the Presentation Mahonz linked in his "WOW" Thread and Daniel reposted in Rob's. Daniel's reply graciously pointed me in the direction of pages 24-29 of the 2nd Presentation where it begins to illustrated a "Profile" tackle and it go me thinking about how the average youth player can be expected to tackle based on his abilities.

In the attached pdf I drew (rather quickly) angles or areas of approach to a tackle at 15 deg. segments.  The intent of the drawing was to see how or what kind of tackle can be expected as the angle of pursuit widened.

From what I have taught coached and seen on the field, USA Footballs Heads Up tackling progression can only be performed up to a certain degree of approach.  Now, I am not down playing USA Football as I am committed to it, will teach it and believe it is the best tackling method needed for tackling ball carriers straight up or nearly straight up (Red and Blue areas)  Any pursuit outside that area normal turns into an angle tackle - Head across (green and partial orange areas) and from my experience a wider pursuit looks like the "Profile" tackle shown in the presentation.

The question is shall we teach three approaches to a tackle based on the angle of pursuit and impact?

Angles???

Football is a 360 deg game... do you need 360 forms of a tackle? Do you need 180 forms of a tackle? Absolutely not... usa football has created more fear of contact then necessary ... stuff happends... helmets hit... do you have time to teach all this and create confident tacklers....nope

A confident tackler is a safer one

Coaches create confidence in this skill and you'll never have to worry about safety

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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mahonz
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June 21, 2013 8:42 am  

Angles???

Football is a 360 deg game... do you need 360 forms of a tackle? Do you need 180 forms of a tackle? Absolutely not... usa football has created more fear of contact then necessary ... stuff happends... helmets hit... do you have time to teach all this and create confident tacklers....nope

A confident tackler is a safer one

Coaches create confidence in this skill and you'll never have to worry about safety

Z

If you haven't read that presentation....and its loaded with film clips....I'd take an afternoon and read it. It will take your hours to get thru it once.

Its really very interesting. What John is talking about is what I have always wondered...should tackling be an area technique kinda thing? Its not that you are teaching how to tackle differently per say for each angle....just the style of attack and aiming points is what I gathered.

Anyway...after reading the presentation it kinda hit me in the forehead like a sledged hammer on what the goal is and how to accomplish it. I finally understood what JrTitan has been try to explain to all of us dinosaurs.

Hosea and USA....garbage information IMO. Dont ever try and sell me on anything football unless I can see it in pads and in a game cuz I wont buy.

You thinking it is more prone to injury is now my only concern. I have taught bite the ball for 25 years and injury has never been an issue....but I fear mandates being that I am in a youth football league that just joined USA as a PR move.

I was talking to a good friend about this. He is the FB Dictator for a large Org in our League. He predicts more scoring this season.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Bob Goodman
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June 21, 2013 8:51 am  

I've been teaching 2 tackling techniques based not on approach angle but on the relative speed of the tackler to the runner.  I believe in head across the bow (what Prusmack labeled the "front tackle" in his instructional book on rugby), far shoulder to chest, for when you're fast enough to assure that your head will get across, but near shoulder to near hip (Prusmack's "rear tackle") for when the runner's faster than you or has enough of a head start.  It's really not the angle of the approach that makes the difference.


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CoachJohn
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June 21, 2013 9:03 am  

Mahonz,

Yes, that is what I am referring to ... aiming points or the approach to the tackle.

Zach,
Yes angles ... I don't see how that is bad.  O-linemen have to use different techniques/aiming points when blocking a heads up defender or a slanting defender.

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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Michael
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June 21, 2013 9:21 am  

O-linemen have to use different techniques/aiming points when blocking a heads up defender or a slanting defender.

I'd rather try to make the O-Line method like the tackling method than the other way around.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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CoachJohn
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June 21, 2013 9:26 am  

The back story is my new league is going all in with this program. They were one of the four youth leagues present at USA Footballs ambassador meeting recently held in Indianapolis. So it is a matter of taking these techniques and applying them in a consistent basis to a range of tackles I have seen on the field.

The post was in regards to the average youth football player, not the studs that can haul ass and get into perfect position every time.

Anyway for me its a HAVE to, I will just keep researching and tinkering with drills to get the results I need.

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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ZACH
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June 21, 2013 9:28 am  

Mahonz,

Yes, that is what I am referring to ... aiming points or the approach to the tackle.

Zach,
Yes angles ... I don't see how that is bad.  O-linemen have to use different techniques/aiming points when blocking a heads up defender or a slanting defender.

Just my experiance more thinking..less aggression...more injuries

Coltsy said it best " same foot same shoulder"

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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mahonz
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June 21, 2013 9:28 am  

Mahonz,

Yes, that is what I am referring to ... aiming points or the approach to the tackle.

Zach,
Yes angles ... I don't see how that is bad.  O-linemen have to use different techniques/aiming points when blocking a heads up defender or a slanting defender.

J

I went ahead and increased the attachment size and uploaded those files to the Downloads Section....created a Sticky Link in the Defense Section as well.

That presentation is really worth a look.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Bob Goodman
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June 21, 2013 10:38 am  

CoachJohn, I don't see the relevance of the angle to the choice of USA Football's tackling technique.  They're all about what part of your own body you hit with, not what part of the opponent's body you hit.  You could hit squarely into the opponent's back using their technique.  I don't recommend their technique, but it seems to be less and less objectionable as the opponent is more & more turned.


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CoachJohn
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June 21, 2013 1:06 pm  

Bob,

I will do my best to explain.  If you have been following the various threads on tackling you may have noticed many coaches saying that the method being implemented by USA football is to create a reaction where the tackler will remove the head from contact through muscle memory and technique.  If you have watched the video it consist of a 5 Fundamentals:

1. Breakdown
2. Buzz
3. Hit Position (which they describe as the most important part)
4. Shoot (explosive opening of the hips)
5. Rip (to help bring the head out of contact)

Generally Speaking if your coaching is good, you are persistent in anything you teach and rep it enough until it is ingrained in the memory the kids it will be duplicated on the field. That is the overall essence of what we do as coaches whether you are working on switching the ball from arm to arm, stepping off with the right foot on the line, teaching proper throwing mechanics, etc.

With that mentally in mind I'm coaching the five steps above, I am teaching it, repping it and constantly reiterating it over and over.  Now lets take this method and apply it to a situation where the defender is making a tackle at a acute angle heading for the sideline (say 75 deg as shown in my attachment).  What portions of the 5 steps are going to be used? Are they going to "buzz" their feet, most likely not. Are they going to get into the hit position shown in the videos (which has been known to be called "step into a hole"), I doubt it because the runner is going to just keep going while you take that step to get into position.

If I take the thought process of "why teach a fundamental in one drill, and not correct or emphasize it when doing another drill. What purposes did the first drill serve". I picked this idea up from Michael at the Chicago Clinic this past March and it made complete sense to me - sorry to single you out on this one Michael.

With all that being said.  If they do what I am describing and on the next down the ball carrier comes strait at them ... oops, there goes the buzz and the hit position because I am allowing it to happen on the field.  The average person is going to take the shortest means to complete a task, this is also held true in the average youth.

While most coaches on here are not mandated to teach the USA Footballs heads up tackling system, I am.  I have to. I have to make it work on a variety of tackles across the field.  Like anything else we coaches do, we break out pencil and paper and start drawing up what will work, not work and we ran it against various scenarios, which I did and came to the conclusion that there are up three possible types of tackle recognition I may have to teach, I want to get it down to 2.

Soon enough the heads up tackling from USA football is coming to a theater near you.

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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DL
 DL
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June 21, 2013 1:49 pm  

Bob,

I will do my best to explain.  If you have been following the various threads on tackling you may have noticed many coaches saying that the method being implemented by USA football is to create a reaction where the tackler will remove the head from contact through muscle memory and technique.  If you have watched the video it consist of a 5 Fundamentals:

1. Breakdown
2. Buzz
3. Hit Position (which they describe as the most important part)
4. Shoot (explosive opening of the hips)
5. Rip (to help bring the head out of contact)

Generally Speaking if your coaching is good, you are persistent in anything you teach and rep it enough until it is ingrained in the memory the kids it will be duplicated on the field. That is the overall essence of what we do as coaches whether you are working on switching the ball from arm to arm, stepping off with the right foot on the line, teaching proper throwing mechanics, etc.

With that mentally in mind I'm coaching the five steps above, I am teaching it, repping it and constantly reiterating it over and over.  Now lets take this method and apply it to a situation where the defender is making a tackle at a acute angle heading for the sideline (say 75 deg as shown in my attachment).  What portions of the 5 steps are going to be used? Are they going to "buzz" their feet, most likely not. Are they going to get into the hit position shown in the videos (which has been known to be called "step into a hole"), I doubt it because the runner is going to just keep going while you take that step to get into position.

If I take the thought process of "why teach a fundamental in one drill, and not correct or emphasize it when doing another drill. What purposes did the first drill serve". I picked this idea up from Michael at the Chicago Clinic this past March and it made complete sense to me - sorry to single you out on this one Michael.

With all that being said.  If they do what I am describing and on the next down the ball carrier comes strait at them ... oops, there goes the buzz and the hit position because I am allowing it to happen on the field.  The average person is going to take the shortest means to complete a task, this is also held true in the average youth.

While most coaches on here are not mandated to teach the USA Footballs heads up tackling system, I am.  I have to. I have to make it work on a variety of tackles across the field.  Like anything else we coaches do, we break out pencil and paper and start drawing up what will work, not work and we ran it against various scenarios, which I did and came to the conclusion that there are up three possible types of tackle recognition I may have to teach, I want to get it down to 2.

Soon enough the heads up tackling from USA football is coming to a theater near you.

You only have to buzz the feet with an open field type tackle where the runner can break 2 ways on you.  Watch the full presentation both parts posted by Mahonz.  It's excellent.

It's the same tech as USA Football, but explained better and with more drills and video.

Be back in a moment.  One part I want to find and highlight - I also mentioned this in my presentation in Chicago.


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DL
 DL
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June 21, 2013 1:56 pm  

Slide 77 to whatever.

Top 10 mistakes plus corrections. 

A lot of the arguments against are addressed here.

These are huge to the success of the tech and the mistakes listed are very common with new and even experienced players.


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Bob Goodman
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June 21, 2013 5:41 pm  

OK, CoachJohn, I get what you're saying: that if USA Football expects the kids to learn it as an entire unit, approach & tackle together, and that they develop that "feel" or "muscle memory", then they can only really use it when they're approaching head on.  I think their comeback would be that the head problem is serious only when the approach is head on, so they don't care what technique the tackler uses under other circumstances.


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JrTitan
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June 22, 2013 12:11 pm  

...Any pursuit outside that area normal turns into an angle tackle - Head across (green and partial orange areas) and from my experience a wider pursuit looks like the "Profile" tackle shown in the presentation.

The question is shall we teach three approaches to a tackle based on the angle of pursuit and impact?

The answer to he question is yes.  Tracking inside- out close on the near hip;  tracking outside in close on far pec/ hip, if runner has a two way go - "shimmy" tackle.  Head across is out of favor on the angle tackle.    On the profile/ angle tackle, hit up and run through the ball carrier - do not decelerate. 

"They call it coaching but it is teaching...You do not just tell them...you show them the reasons""You have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's important."“…you have no bad habits to break...We either coach it or are allowing allowing it to happen.”


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