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Bob Goodman
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How many of you teach the first player to make contact to tackle the ball — decreasing the chance of getting the runner down or stopped (without further help), in return for increasing the chance of knocking the ball loose (without further help)?

From what I've seen at various levels of play, the ballcarrier fumbles more often at the initial hit than at subsequent hits in a gang tackling situation.

Darn, didn't we have an "add poll" option after we added the topic?  I want to ask how many:

  1. Don't teach that technique on the initial hit, ever.
  2. Do teach that technique on the initial hit, to have in the tool kit, but not as the default.
  3. Teach that as your base tackling technique on the initial hit.
This topic was modified 11 months ago by Bob Goodman

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gumby_in_co
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  1. Don't teach that technique on the initial hit, ever.

Used to teach "bite the ball" until we decided to take the head out of the tackle.

Played around with a Kimura technique in gang tackle situations, but abandoned that as well.

Now it's all about getting the runner to the ground with violence as fast as humanly possible. Anything less than 4 defenders on the ball is unacceptable.

Back in 2011 or so, we had a very promising 2nd grade LB who was ruined for the season after he stripped the ball in the backfield and took it to the house in game 1. For the rest of the season, he never even attempted a decent tackle. All he wanted to do was take the football. He easily led the team in missed tackles. 

Our current group is so athletically challenged that we just want to get the runner on the ground and intimidate him on the way.  Maybe Mahonz in his boredom will put together a clip of long TDs we gave up that should have been TFLs or fumble recoveries. My personal favorite was a snap that bounced off the QBs head, went 5 feet up and 10 yards back. We had about 4 kids diving for that football only to see the QB scoop it up and out run the entire defense for a 40 yard TD.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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Funny how things change, we used to use screws to the ball or what ever it's called when you initially tackle with your head on the ball side.  Now we just tackle and are better off. 

 

If you're team is challenged with ability , up their skill level...work on your fundys. 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Coyote
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For us....

  1. We work on form-fit for tackle, then form tackle. [Head out of the game]  Its all about putting the ball carrier in the dirt.
  2. Then its pursuit angles, containment on the perimeter and swarming to the ball. 
  3. Once we get to swarming, we work on stripping the ball during the swarm.   We've had 4 "strip Six"s the last 2 yrs, and most games, get at least one strip.  

But initially, its all about putting the ball carrier in the dirt. 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Bob Goodman
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Since I haven't gotten an answer to the question about polls, should I assume the current version of DumCoach has no polling?

Continuing the discussion, if you don't specifically teach the first to arrive (at the ballcarrier) to tackle the ball, do you teach any choice the players can take between near-shoulder and far-shoulder tackling, which they might choose based on which side the runner's holding the ball on?  For those of you teaching near-shoulder tackling, do you have them adjust the height of the hit according to whether the ball's being carried high or low?

My team coaches the players always to prefer head-across tackling, but I see so many cases where the ballcarrier's either holding the ball on the wrong side or where there really is no correct side (because hits are equally likely to come from either side) that I wish we taught them to be more flexible in their tackling technique, so as to take advantage of those situations where a near-shoulder hit would be directly on the ball.  I want to recommend that in our angle tackling drills we no longer correct the runner in advance of the rep if they have the ball on the wrong side, in the hope that our tacklers see the opportunity.

I also think that if the ball's being carried on the near side and you hit it with the near shoulder, you have a good chance of knocking the ball to a place where you can see it and therefore an advantage in recovering it.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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First man to the ball carrier is expected to make the tackle regardless of the ball.  The second, third, and fourth people who arrive at the scene are expected to attempt a takeaway.  

We found early on that, if the first guy there is concerned with trying to strip the ball away he is giving up ground tugging on the Ball Carriers Arm!  Hence he is taught to Make the tackle.  Be it Gator Roll, Chest Plate, of Sniff the Pit.     

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @youth-coach

First man to the ball carrier is expected to make the tackle regardless of the ball.  The second, third, and fourth people who arrive at the scene are expected to attempt a takeaway.  

We found early on that, if the first guy there is concerned with trying to strip the ball away he is giving up ground tugging on the Ball Carriers Arm!

Is not giving up ground a worthwhile trade for a chance at the ball?  Or do you think the 2nd, etc. to arrive have as good a chance at the strip as the 1st?


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Dusty Ol Fart
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Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @youth-coach

First man to the ball carrier is expected to make the tackle regardless of the ball.  The second, third, and fourth people who arrive at the scene are expected to attempt a takeaway.  

We found early on that, if the first guy there is concerned with trying to strip the ball away he is giving up ground tugging on the Ball Carriers Arm!

Is not giving up ground a worthwhile trade for a chance at the ball?  Or do you think the 2nd, etc. to arrive have as good a chance at the strip as the 1st?

So you would rather play tug on the arm for 5 to 7 yards per attempt in hopes of causing a fumble let alone the 50/50 odds of recovering it?  Me I prefer the tackle and let the Cavalry try and get the ball.  But that just how I see it.

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @youth-coach
Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @youth-coach

First man to the ball carrier is expected to make the tackle regardless of the ball.  The second, third, and fourth people who arrive at the scene are expected to attempt a takeaway.  

We found early on that, if the first guy there is concerned with trying to strip the ball away he is giving up ground tugging on the Ball Carriers Arm!

Is not giving up ground a worthwhile trade for a chance at the ball?  Or do you think the 2nd, etc. to arrive have as good a chance at the strip as the 1st?

So you would rather play tug on the arm for 5 to 7 yards per attempt in hopes of causing a fumble let alone the 50/50 odds of recovering it?  Me I prefer the tackle and let the Cavalry try and get the ball.  But that just how I see it.

But do you see the cavlary as having as good a chance to cause a fumble as the initial tackler did?  From what I've seen, most fumbles come from the initial hit rather than a subsequent one.  Also, in some youth leagues the whistles come too quickly for the later arrivals to produce a fumble.

I've also heard that one of the best ways to keep the runner from struggling for the extra yards is to make him struggle to keep hold of the ball -- or even to make him conscious of ball control from a previous struggle over it.


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rpatric
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I want the first player that arrives to unleash an ungodly hit and wrap up the ball carrier. That is non negotiable to me.

Now, if said player has control of the runner, I expect the fast approaching, horde of players to get me the football.

If however, the first player needs help corralling the runner, the next man there needs to help him secure the tackle.

It's really simple as long as you don't make it complicated. Get to the ball in a hurry, secure the ball carrier, relieve him of his ball carrying duties.

So to answer your question Bob, I want the ball carrier secured first and the ball immediately afterwards. The only exception is when the initial defender actually hits hard enough to separate the ball carrier from the ball, then I want our entire team fighting eachother to get the ball!


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Coyote
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Posted by: @rpatric

I want the first player

Pretty much the same here. 

1st player, put the ball carrier in the dirt.  That's his job.
The swarm - if the ball carrier in not in the dirt - get the ball while he is being put in the dirt. 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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rpatric
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One of the coaches on here has a way of teaching pursuit that is really helpful. I can't remember right off hand, probably Coach Potter. Use 2 whistles, the first when contact is initiated and the second a few seconds later. Anyone who is not at the ball carrier or trying like hell to get there by the 2nd whistle is replaced or has to deliver punishment to the rest of the team.

Once you get kids moving that fast to the ball and arriving in droves, you can take the ball away much easier. It takes care of 1 kid tackling and 10 watching!


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CoachDP
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We pursue the football.  It's the only reason we're attacking whoever has it.  I don't care about the tackle; I want the football.  In the attached vid, you can see the FIRST tackler pursue, make the contact to get the ball, knock it out and recover it.

Our focus is not on the ball-carrier, but what's he's holding in his hand.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coachdp

We pursue the football.  It's the only reason we're attacking whoever has it.  I don't care about the tackle; I want the football.  In the attached vid, you can see the FIRST tackler pursue, make the contact to get the ball, knock it out and recover it.

Our focus is not on the ball-carrier, but what's he's holding in his hand.

It looks like the defender put his near shoulder onto the ball, since the ballcarrier was presenting it on the near side.  If he'd been carrying it on the far side, would you have preferred to see a far-shoulder, head-across-the-bow hit?


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

It looks like the defender put his near shoulder onto the ball, since the ballcarrier was presenting it on the near side.  If he'd been carrying it on the far side, would you have preferred to see a far-shoulder, head-across-the-bow hit?

That's a good question, Bob. But waaay to specific in terms of what we're trying to do.  Our tackler may have very well ended up doing what you just described, if the ball was on the other side, but we don't teach that kind of emphasis.  Since we're are "all about the ball," tacklers will adjust their angle of approach on their own in terms of how they attack a particular ball-carrier.  Sometimes that means our tackler will put his "head across the bow," but mostly our tacklers will adjust their incoming angle so that they are already hitting on the side of the ball.  Regardless, by making the ball the target instead of the ball-carrier, we get more of this kind of defensive play (as seen in the vid).

The key here is teaching tacklers what you want, not so much the technique of doing it.  I don't want defenders who are thinking about shoulder- technique at the expense of blowing up a ball-carrier.  I want them chasing the ball-carrier and making sure that the contact is so hard, the ball comes free.  What we've found is that once tacklers know what it is that we want, they come up with all sorts of ways to make that happen.  Often it helps me come up with a way to teach a particular technique or drill.

Worst case scenario is that we don't cause a fumble.  But we never have to worry about that oh-so-common fear that "if I teach my first guy there to strip the ball, he'll miss the tackle."  We're not trying to steal a lady's pocketbook off her arm.  We're trying to make the collision of us vs. ball, us vs. his hand, us vs. his arm that's so impactful that it can't be held onto.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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