Teaching Modern Tac...
 
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COACH JC
(@winged)
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I didn't have any problems with it.    It's the same as it's always been except last several years we aren't burying our facemask in the numbers, but we always hit numbers or ball high and drove up with our arms.   

Mostly, I  just line the kids up opposite each other and they run forward and we rip up and drive through 3 steps through the hit from an angle.    We don't even go to ground.  We don't miss many tackles.  I do other tackling drills too, mainly hip rolling, shedding and open field stuff, but that is the crux of it once we are rolling. 

Runner has to lean forward and protect himself.  We get under him and drive him up and back.  Any age and most sizes can do it. 

In future I will have a whole speedy circuit complete with numerous turnover drills starting from knees and rolling hips. 

You guys keep giving these examples of a 40 pound mentally disabled kid against a 190 lb. future D1 TE and then want to throw the baby out with the bathwater on the whole shabang.    He ain't going to tackle that kid above the waist with any tech known to man.

Teach that kid to hit the legs head up and gator roll or dive across shin high with head up and protect his head with his forearm. 

NFL corners don't tackle 250 lb+ backs or TE's high either.  No one does except DL and big LB's.

Exactly.  A little player cannot tackle hi against a big player in a lot of cases.  They will get absolutely crushed...

So my question is, DOES USA FOOTBALL, INSTRUCT COACHES THAT CHEST TACKLING IS NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL?  Because if the don't, their gonna have a lot pf lawsuits on their hand.  If they think chest tackling can be used for every player, on every play, THEIR INSANE!

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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DL
 DL
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Exactly.  A little player cannot tackle hi against a big player in a lot of cases.  They will get absolutely crushed...

So my question is, DOES USA FOOTBALL, INSTRUCT COACHES THAT CHEST TACKLING IS NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL?  Because if the don't, their gonna have a lot pf lawsuits on their hand.  If they think chest tackling can be used for every player, on every play, THEIR INSANE!

I haven't seen a USA Football vid of it, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.  Seen lots of other heads up vids of fitting in from knee level and pulling the legs in with head up and then rolling.

Very similar tech, it's just much lower.  Here's one. You have to watch it for a few seconds before they get to the low one:   

Here is gator roll. 

For added safety you can gator roll with head behind instead of in front like Rugby: 


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COACH JC
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I haven't seen a USA Football vid of it, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.  Seen lots of other heads up vids of fitting in from knee level and pulling the legs in with head up and then rolling.

Very similar tech, it's just much lower.  Here's one. You have to watch it for a few seconds before they get to the low one:   

Here is gator roll. 

For added safety you can gator roll with head behind instead of in front like Rugby: 

I believe that would be against the Heads up program.  But i'm all for roll tackling.  Although it is interesting that most coaches wont use it on their own players in practice.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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flosman
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One of the problems with all of this stuff is tackles in real football rarely happen the way they are drilled regardless of how we teach them. In addition the ones where guys get knock silly are never done the way we teach and really never have been. Tacklers are knocked out chest tackling. Helmet manufacture label of the ball carrier right in the chin of the tackler. I have seen it and everyone else will eventually. I think eyes up are very important and there is a lot of evidence that strengthening the neck sure helps. But we are not going to stop concussions with these new coaching methods. What do we do then? I am all for the outlawing of the ear holing I was taught back in the day, heck I think that tacklers should get called for spearing when they tackle with their eyes down and the same for running backs. I just don't think this is the answer that it is being sold as.


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coachmiket
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So what are we supposed to do when we have these kids for 3-4 nights a week, 2 hours a night?  Where do we start with this tackling stuff?  The presentation seems great, but I can't envision myself having the time to spend on going through the entire progression from page 1.  You know?  I don't have weight bands or whatever for the kids to use.  I don't get to have them for just a tackling practice. 

I mean, I'm hoping my schemes this season will be fairly simple to allow for more fundamental work, but that doesn't mean I can start at square one of this presentation and teach the kids tackling like that. 

Where would you recommend a starting point?  We get our first team practice after 3 days of league wide conditioning.  So after 2 team practices they are allowed to hit (assuming they've been to all 5 practices).  8 hours a week for 4 weeks.  We will probably have 2-3 scrimmages in there before our first game.  Between offensive fundies, team, defensive group work, etc.  Where would be a starting point?  Do you try to combine the entire tackle into one session with each kid with a partner, giving the example of how it should be done and then letting them have at it and having coaches correct as you go?


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mahonz
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Topic starter  

So what are we supposed to do when we have these kids for 3-4 nights a week, 2 hours a night?  Where do we start with this tackling stuff?  The presentation seems great, but I can't envision myself having the time to spend on going through the entire progression from page 1.  You know?  I don't have weight bands or whatever for the kids to use.  I don't get to have them for just a tackling practice. 

I mean, I'm hoping my schemes this season will be fairly simple to allow for more fundamental work, but that doesn't mean I can start at square one of this presentation and teach the kids tackling like that. 

Where would you recommend a starting point?  We get our first team practice after 3 days of league wide conditioning.  So after 2 team practices they are allowed to hit (assuming they've been to all 5 practices).  8 hours a week for 4 weeks.  We will probably have 2-3 scrimmages in there before our first game.  Between offensive fundies, team, defensive group work, etc.  Where would be a starting point?  Do you try to combine the entire tackle into one session with each kid with a partner, giving the example of how it should be done and then letting them have at it and having coaches correct as you go?

M

My suggestion?

After every score recover the on side kick. Problem solved.

Seriously...that is a great question. I was thinking that a lot of the exaggerated muscle memory stuff could easily replace some of the exercises in our dynamic warm ups. But that is as far as I have gone in my mind.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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coachmiket
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M

My suggestion?

After every score recover the on side kick. Problem solved.

Seriously...that is a great question. I was thinking that a lot of the exaggerated muscle memory stuff could easily replace some of the exercises in our dynamic warm ups. But that is as far as I have gone in my mind.

Ha. Unfortunately I'm in a league where the other team gets the ball on their own 35 after a score.  No punts either.


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CoachTimmyD
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I've been coached using USAfootball's heads up last year (one of 3 pilot programs across the US)...even had NFL comissioner Goodell come watch one of my practices).  And I did have several 70lbs CB tackling 110+lb RB using this method...but as I explained to the USAFootball folks last year, my guys do a modified "gator roll" [my term..not the tackle at the knees thing], but from a chestplate position.  let me explain... they go thru their heads up tackling progression..head up, ripping arms shooting hips, but clearly they can tell when the "incoming force" is greater and drives them back...since they are already grabbing cloth, they dont fight the incoming force, the twist and roll their body and drive the runner into the ground.  Yes they'll get driven back ~2 yards, but they land on the runner virtually everytime...and I tell my guys, I'll give up 2 yards for a tackle...What I've found in some of my older/smaller kids..is they got very good at using the energy of the runner to drive him to the ground, rather than trying to "stop all that energy" head on.. (no pun intended)...  I'll see if I can't dig up some clips from last season... 


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DL
 DL
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I have been thinking a bit about this.    After seeing the Goodell videos on how the NFL is going to call games going forward vis a vi head contact, I think you have to move the head to the side to avoid flags on incidental contact and not take the 15 yards. 

Simply going straight up isn't going to cut it, even if you clear helmet to helmet on way up as you drive through to finish the play the helmet comes back to touch the other helmet in many cases.  You are also going to get calls when the helmet is touching the body of a "defenseless player."    It is going to have to be to the side at least the width of a helmet and in some cases completely to the side of the body.

I think you still stay square as possible to the target, dip and rip up, etc., but you move the head to side at last moment which will have you favoring a shoulder in many cases. 

You can aim for the armpit or ball side.  I would use the ball as a target on how low your head should be anyway.    It's not much of a change, but it has to be done to avoid the yellow hanky.


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coachgregory
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I have been thinking a bit about this.    After seeing the Goodell videos on how the NFL is going to call games going forward vis a vi head contact, I think you have to move the head to the side to avoid flags on incidental contact and not take the 15 yards. 

Simply going straight up isn't going to cut it, even if you clear helmet to helmet on way up as you drive through to finish the play the helmet comes back to touch the other helmet in many cases.  You are also going to get calls when the helmet is touching the body of a "defenseless player."    It is going to have to be to the side at least the width of a helmet and in some cases completely to the side of the body.

I think you still stay square as possible to the target, dip and rip up, etc., but you move the head to side at last moment which will have you favoring a shoulder in many cases. 

You can aim for the armpit or ball side.  I would use the ball as a target on how low your head should be anyway.    It's not much of a change, but it has to be done to avoid the yellow hanky.

Having put some thought into this for a while that is reason why I have my kids landmark the ARM PIT with their eyes...forcing them to get low and get their head completely away from the other player's head and to the side....  It is safe and you don't have to worry about head to head/head to chin contact....  πŸ™‚

Jack

Exsisto Fortis, Exsisto Validus


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Test Account
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Mike those are excellent

Please don't PM or respond to this Member. It is an account for all of the posts from abandoned or banned Member Accounts.


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Pearls of Wisdom
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From my wife's cousin:

TACKLING (BY BOBBY ROSS) 
GEORGIA TECH 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:

1. ONE ON ONE (HEAD ON) TACKLING
a. Start from good, low, breakdown position.

b. STICK PHASE
1. Leading with eyes, explode chest into largest area of mass – usually in chest area around numbers.  Power of 6” explosion is key here – explode out and up at same time.  Must make sure initial contact is made with chest.
2. Power comes from leg extension and upper body extension.
3. Upon contact, wide base and accelerate feet immediately.
4. Legs must be gathered, and hips roll under body.

c. SLAM PHASE
1. On contact with chest, throw both arms around ball carrier’s rib cage area – do not wind up – this is wasted motion.
2. Grab opposite wrist and lock him up.
3. Grab jersey if not able to lock wrist.

d. ISO PHASE
1. Squeeze with arms, drive chest up through man.  Your eyes are looking to sky.
2. Gather feet so you are climbing right up on toes of ball carrier – key point is we do not want any distance between tackler and ball carrier.

e. COACHING POINTS
1. Must explode with eyes and head up – body follows eyes – you will never be faked out.  Must keep head up.
2. Never be over-extended – gather feet and roll hips – no distance between you and ball carrier.
3. Must widen base on CONTACT AND ACCELERATE FEET – key is to literally run through man – vital coaching point.
4. Must develop 6” explosion – ability to explode with power just before contact – explode out and up.
5. Do not wind up in SLAM phase.
6. Keep feet when tackling.

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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Coach Brad
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So I don't understand how this can be used by the entire team.  Does anyone have video, of a little guy mpp guy, taking on the other teams star running back, SQUARE, and chest plate tackling?  Showing me a bunch of 260 pound college LB's doing it, does nothing for me.

I know I've had this convo before on here. Do you have video of a little mpp taking on an opposing star back and making a solid tackle with any technique? In my experience the players like that either try and get in the way with decent form and slow the RB down for his teammates, or get scared and attempt and arm tackle which does even less. There is no technique that will make 70 pound mpp's tackle 150 pound studs with much success.


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COACH JC
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I know I've had this convo before on here. Do you have video of a little mpp taking on an opposing star back and making a solid tackle with any technique? In my experience the players like that either try and get in the way with decent form and slow the RB down for his teammates, or get scared and attempt and arm tackle which does even less. There is no technique that will make 70 pound mpp's tackle 150 pound studs with much success.

Well, lets just take MPP out of the terminology.  Lets just say a solid player that weighs 30-40 pounds less than other kids.

My QB is 95 lbs. in a max 145 league.  He takes down kids that are 145 w/ no problem.  But he would get CRUSHED if he went in high for a chest tackle. 

Theres a reason DB's in college and the NFL don't tackle the way D-lineman & backers do.  They'll get trucked if they try to.  Just cuz your not chest tackling doesn't mean your arm tackling. 

Like i said, you (not actually YOU) want to convince the masses & try to convert the way we all teach tackling, then just post one darn video of it going live in drills.  Your telling me how safe this technique is, YET YOU CANT SHOW AN INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO W/ PADS ON FULL CONTACT????  Huh???  Meanwhile i could post video of us biting the ball at full speed HEAD ON, W/ ALL OF MY PLAYERS, all day. 

So why is that?  Why in year 3 of the heads up program, do we still not see any video of them using a full speed tackling circuit w/ it?  W/ the entire team. 

The answer is because it's not a one size fits all tackle.  It's a tool that is put in your tool belt, and you use it when it fits.  Force it on kids & i guarantee there will be some bad results.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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Coach Brad
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Well, lets just take MPP out of the terminology.  Lets just say a solid player that weighs 30-40 pounds less than other kids.

My QB is 95 lbs. in a max 145 league.  He takes down kids that are 145 w/ no problem.  But he would get CRUSHED if he went in high for a chest tackle. 

Who said anything about going high? the tackle starts in the exact same position as your typical shoulder tackler. Head up, neck bulled, arms/hands loaded, knees and hips bent, feet shoulder width, ect...

The only difference I have made in the way I teach tackle is instead of aiming the shoulder at the belt buckle, we explode up and through the ball carrier with violent arm action. We don't talk about getting chest to chest much. The emphasis is on a good low starting position and exploding up and through with violent arms.


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