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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Thanks for the great input, it gives me some good perspective.  Looking back, I rushed some things early on this season out of fear of not getting all the pieces in place before game 1.  This was due to a lack of experience.

RJ

Honestly this is one of the leading factors why you won all the marbles with this age group IMO.

Practice tackling all you want....create 11 Ray Lewis types ASAP and I guarantee they will tackle like Tom Brady in the games if they do not know their jobs.

That is what I learned coaching the little dudes the last few seasons. Scheme over technique is CRITICAL. Thereafter you can swing the pendulum back to where it is supposed to be as they get a bit older.

Basically...excellent technique dont mean squat until they first learn how to play the game. Even a crappy tackler becomes an excellent tackler when he is in the right place at the right time.  😉 😉

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachJohn
(@coachj)
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RJ,

Here is the link: http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php?topic=13732.msg204482#msg204482

"One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity." - Albert Schweitzer


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coachgregory
(@coachgregory)
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Coach,

By violent tackling do you mean very physical, full speed but do NOT take them to the ground?

The only time we allow our players to take other players to the ground is during live/scrimmage type drills.  Everything else is wrap and drive back ( violently).  I don't like telling my players to go 1/2 speed...what I do tell them is to wrap'em and make it hurt while you drive them back as far as you can.  Whistle blows you stop what you are doing...

We control force by reducing distance...the more aggressive a player the less distance we give him 🙂

Jack

Exsisto Fortis, Exsisto Validus


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CoachRJ
(@rjohns99)
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Topic starter  

Mike,

Based on your input I did spend more time on scheme but I know I could have done more with fundamentals at the same time.  The scheme time did give me an advantage offensively but my core problem with defense was getting the right combination of scheme and personnel dialed in.  It took me 3/4 of the season to get the best D fielded.  I had a surplus of DTs and a consistent pair of DEs but I had to move kids around from practice to practice to fill out my LBs and CBs based on who showed up.  It made it hard to teach responsibilities and fit when they played a different position from week to week.  I also had to overcome their aggressive impulse and teach them to play disciplined (a side effect of Potter training  :)).  By the end of the season though, they played disciplined and learned to call and shift to strength.  We just missed too many tackles.

John, thanks for the link.

Jack, thanks for the clarification.

RJ

"There's no system of play that substitutes for knocking an opponent down.  When you hit, hit hard." - Pop Warner


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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The first week is all fitting and being correct, the next few weeks we take to the ground AFTER they all been through our tackling progression.  As the season goes on, we don't take them to the ground due the fact we are short on numbers and don't want anyone hurt in practice during the season, sucks, I know, but it is what it is although we do bend for a tackle baseball game here or there to the ground.

I've probably written this here before, but I don't trust either my, or my players', ability to turn it on and then turn it off quickly enough to make a difference between taking an opponent to the ground and stopping just short of taking them down.  Seems when I've seen it tried, if we're just blowing a quick whistle, it hardly ever makes a difference as to whether they go down, but if we're telling them in advance not to take the opponent down, then I'm afraid we'll reinforce bad technique.

I'd like to read of others' experience in that regard.  Can you tune it finely enough to make a difference in injury potential without hurting performance?


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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We've found that getting more reps in quickly does more to whet the appetite for tackling, than getting one try and then going back to the end of the line.

Then do you do any drills like foxes & hounds, or goat anti-rabbit*, or whatever they call it, where you have a mob of players trying to tackle another mob of players, no ball necessary?

*Anybody get this joke?


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Mike,

Based on your input I did spend more time on scheme but I know I could have done more with fundamentals at the same time.  The scheme time did give me an advantage offensively but my core problem with defense was getting the right combination of scheme and personnel dialed in.  It took me 3/4 of the season to get the best D fielded.  I had a surplus of DTs and a consistent pair of DEs but I had to move kids around from practice to practice to fill out my LBs and CBs based on who showed up.  It made it hard to teach responsibilities and fit when they played a different position from week to week.  I also had to overcome their aggressive impulse and teach them to play disciplined (a side effect of Potter training  :)).  By the end of the season though, they played disciplined and learned to call and shift to strength.  We just missed too many tackles.

John, thanks for the link.

Jack, thanks for the clarification.

RJ

RJ

The last 1/4 of the season is all that matters.  😉

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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coachgregory
(@coachgregory)
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I've probably written this here before, but I don't trust either my, or my players', ability to turn it on and then turn it off quickly enough to make a difference between taking an opponent to the ground and stopping just short of taking them down.  Seems when I've seen it tried, if we're just blowing a quick whistle, it hardly ever makes a difference as to whether they go down, but if we're telling them in advance not to take the opponent down, then I'm afraid we'll reinforce bad technique.

I'd like to read of others' experience in that regard.  Can you tune it finely enough to make a difference in injury potential without hurting performance?

Yes...

Martial arts instructions has been doing it for nearly 500 years or so...there is a thing called accountibility that you need to enforce.

Jack

Exsisto Fortis, Exsisto Validus


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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I also had to overcome their aggressive impulse and teach them to play disciplined (a side effect of Potter training

So are you saying that you couldn't be disciplined and aggressive?  All of our defensive players had areas of responsibility and had to have the discipline to play the position without getting themselves out of position.  Anyone can teach aggression without responsibility.  As a matter of fact, that's hardly teaching anything at all.  The sign of a successful defense (which can be different from a purely aggressive one), is how well the team performs their assignments.  We were not a blitzing team.  My philosophy was that if we played our assignments correctly, then the blitz is not needed.  All the blitz does is take you out of position and gamble on the big play.  I don't like being out of position and I hate to gamble.  When you gamble, generally the percentages aren't in your favor.  I'd like to think that the best part of our defensive play and why it was successful was because we did a good job of playing assignment football.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Then do you do any drills like foxes & hounds, or goat anti-rabbit*, or whatever they call it, where you have a mob of players trying to tackle another mob of players, no ball necessary?

--Bob, I don't know what foxes & hounds or goats & rabbits or dogs & sheep is, or any drill where tackling a player without a ball is concerned.  We would never teach that.  In my mind, you're emphasizing defensive holding.

*Anybody get this joke?

--No.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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So are you saying that you couldn't be disciplined and aggressive?  All of our defensive players had areas of responsibility and had to have the discipline to play the position without getting themselves out of position.  Anyone can teach aggression without responsibility.  As a matter of fact, that's hardly teaching anything at all.  The sign of a successful defense (which can be different from a purely aggressive one), is how well the team performs their assignments.  We were not a blitzing team.  My philosophy was that if we played our assignments correctly, then the blitz is not needed.  All the blitz does is take you out of position and gamble on the big play.  I don't like being out of position and I hate to gamble.  When you gamble, generally the percentages aren't in your favor.  I'd like to think that the best part of our defensive play and why it was successful was because we did a good job of playing assignment football.

--Dave

What if you assignment is to blitz?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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What if you assignment is to blitz?

Chris, when I refer to "assignments," I mean what our default responsibilities were.  No standing defensive players were assigned to blitz as a part of their regular responsibility.  We did blitz from 'Backer or Corners, occasionally. 

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Michael
(@michael)
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So are you saying that you couldn't be disciplined and aggressive?

I think the problem with trying to overcome aggressiveness is that you might succeed.

By the way, my rule is to never, ever, follow a description/compliment of something the player did right with "but."

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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I think the problem with trying to overcome aggressiveness is that you might succeed.

By the way, my rule is to never, ever, follow a description/compliment of something the player did right with "but."

Now that is a hard habbit to break.


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Michael
(@michael)
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Now that is a hard habbit to break.

Aggressiveness, trying to overcome aggressiveness, or not saying "but"?

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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