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3 teams merge, coach from the lower level is HC, only invites a few players

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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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We have people in our association that would seek out people breaking this absurd rule. I bet the poster does also. As written, a coach eating dinner with his son who is on a team would be a violation of the rule. Sound ridiculous? Yup, but by their rules the dad would be in violation. Heaven help the fool who lets his kid hang out with his teammates in the off season. Oh yeah, there is no off season in his league. Who does this league think they are? As this rule is written, no parent can possibly coach there own children. All that do so are in violation of the rules unless they are absolute dead beat dads.
Obviously the org does not intend the rule to say what it does(or at least I hope they aren't that hopelessly stupid) but unfortunately the person who wrote it didn't think too much about what he was proposing. Define a practice as something that actually constitutes a football practice and maybe you have a leg to stand on. Define a season that is not 365 days long and they might not seem like a bunch of control freaks. As is, they lose all respect imo. How can you not possibly break those rules?

R

Agreed. They need to define a Practice Session. Maybe they do but in a different Rule.

Its common though. Iv'e seen rules that were written that had no penalty attached which is the worst part about Youth Volunteers writing rules. They cant seem to be able to write a clear rule and when a rule is clear as mud....well that is never good. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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R

Agreed. They need to define a Practice Session. Maybe they do but in a different Rule.

Its common though. Iv'e seen rules that were written that had no penalty attached which is the worst part about Youth Volunteers writing rules. They cant seem to be able to write a clear rule and when a rule is clear as mud....well that is never good.

They did define a practice. It was "any gathering of any team members with any coach present". That is possibly the most poorly written rule I have ever seen. How is that even remotely enforceable?


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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They did define a practice. It was "any gathering of any team members with any coach present". That is possibly the most poorly written rule I have ever seen. How is that even remotely enforceable?

Technically you are correct. I wonder if anyone within the Org has brought up how poorly written this Rule is?

You cant enforce a team picnic at Six Flags  in June as a "practice".

You cant enforce a team playing Spring Flag as a team a "practice".

You cant enforce a team getting together for a B-Day party at Chuckie Cheese as a  "practice".

Really dumb. An unenforceable rule unless you pad up at Chuckie Cheese.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Shamrocks
(@shamrocks)
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Topic starter  

R

Agreed. They need to define a Practice Session. Maybe they do but in a different Rule.

Its common though. Iv'e seen rules that were written that had no penalty attached which is the worst part about Youth Volunteers writing rules. They cant seem to be able to write a clear rule and when a rule is clear as mud....well that is never good.

Simple, a coach with more than 3 players practicing plays, formations and so on before August 1st is NOT allowed and a violation.


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DL
 DL
(@daniel-lyons)
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Joined: 10 years ago
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Simple, a coach with more than 3 players practicing plays, formations and so on before August 1st is NOT allowed and a violation.

What is a play?

Running route tree or any part with 3 kids?

Practicing snaps and handoffs with 3 kids?

Kicking field goals with 3 kids?

Keep in mind most coaches are dad coaches.

What if coach also runs a professional training facility?  We have several in my area and those guys sometimes coach as well.

He can't do his job?

Can you run a camp where you work on these things?  What is dif between a coach run camp and practice?

Can you do a 7 on 7 league?

Why not just say no team practices before such and such date and make it like pornography. 

I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.  It should look a lot like a regular season practice.

My point is skills training of any kind should be encouraged in off season not discouraged.


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
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Technically you are correct. I wonder if anyone within the Org has brought up how poorly written this Rule is?

You cant enforce a team picnic at Six Flags  in June as a "practice".

You cant enforce a team playing Spring Flag as a team a "practice".

You cant enforce a team getting together for a B-Day party at Chuckie Cheese as a  "practice".

Really dumb. An unenforceable rule unless you pad up at Chuckie Cheese.

What if the coach is a Sunday School Teacher?  ::)

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Simple, a coach with more than 3 players practicing plays, formations and so on before August 1st is NOT allowed and a violation.

S

I didn't see that in J's post?

Our League has the same Rule but further defines a Practice Session much like your post.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Shamrocks
(@shamrocks)
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Topic starter  

What is a play?

Running route tree or any part with 3 kids?

Practicing snaps and handoffs with 3 kids?

Kicking field goals with 3 kids?

Keep in mind most coaches are dad coaches.

What if coach also runs a professional training facility?  We have several in my area and those guys sometimes coach as well.

He can't do his job?

Can you run a camp where you work on these things?  What is dif between a coach run camp and practice?

Can you do a 7 on 7 league?

Why not just say no team practices before such and such date and make it like pornography. 

I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.  It should look a lot like a regular season practice.

My point is skills training of any kind should be encouraged in off season not discouraged.

I agree, there is a HUGE loophole


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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My point is skills training of any kind should be encouraged in off season not discouraged.

Then to avoid accusations of "head start", coaches should be encouraged to help train each other's team's players during the off season.

Another way to avoid the problem would be a bit extreme, but occurs in some organiz'ns: Draft the entire team each season.  Then you can't be accused of giving your team a head start, because anybody could draft the players you coached.

Anyway, that's kind of like how I assumed the enforcement would work in the case that started this thread: that those players would not be allowed to play with that team that season, so they could not be said to have practiced in the off-season.


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JohnM71
(@johnm_1971)
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It is absurd.  I know it was written to prevent teams from getting head starts, but it's way too broad.  What if we have an offseason coaches meeting and bring our kids with us?  It appears to be a violation.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Like I posted earlier, being in the same house with your own children, if you are their coach, would be a violation.


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Shamrocks
(@shamrocks)
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Topic starter  

Like I posted earlier, being in the same house with your own children, if you are their coach, would be a violation.

If you have 4 kids on the same team, YES!


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Where in that rule did it say at least 3 players? It said "any gathering of any team members". I didn't see a number but I might of missed it. The reason you can actually do some things in the offseason in Pop Warner is the team does not exist until the roster comes out and coaches aren't actually coaches until the season starts.


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DL
 DL
(@daniel-lyons)
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Where in that rule did it say at least 3 players? It said "any gathering of any team members". I didn't see a number but I might of missed it. The reason you can actually do some things in the offseason in Pop Warner is the team does not exist until the roster comes out and coaches aren't actually coaches until the season starts.

We have drafts and selections (no cuts).  So we know who is registered for a weight class (assuming they make it at weigh in), but would have no idea who is on the team we are coaching.

We, like everyone in football universe, have a practice start date.  Conditioning followed by pads.   

If I emailed players registered for that weight class as a coach of one of the teams and asked if they wanted to run some drills at the park would I be in violation of league rules you think?

Many of teams are doing 7 on 7 now through the league. 

 


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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I think if you email ALL of them to run some drills you would be fine, depending of course on your specific association rules. The issue is insurance. We would run camps through PAL, invite every kid signed up and advertise in the paper and websites. We also went to the other league in town and asked them to participate. While I see nothing wrong with what you are wanting to do I am sure there is probably some rule against it.


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