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HCScott
(@herb-scott)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 363
April 28, 2018 9:23 am  

After a year away I'm back with an 8th grade team.
My 3rd program rebuild.

Parkrose did not play football last year, the original founder and sponsor called to see if I'd help him put a youth program (back) together.
They were 3rd thru 8th but their longtime leader just quit with no plan for the program and they failed to field teams.

We're going to play 6/7 grade team in a 7th grade JV league and a 7/8 grade team in 8th grade Varsity league this year. 

No 2nd graders! 🙂  School district is sponsoring flag football for elementary students and 6th graders not ready for 7th grade tackle competition.

I have 14 years experience at 5/6 level with really good competitive hard hitting teams. Looking forward to the step up.
Any advice from you all would be appreciated

"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
April 28, 2018 4:21 pm  

Any advice from you all would be appreciated

Regarding?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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HCScott
(@herb-scott)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 363
April 29, 2018 8:03 am  

Regarding the change from 5/6 to 7/8?
The potential differences so I prepare. Since I have not coached at this level and take it seriously I want to do the best job I can and learn as much as possible, I'm confident but some anxiety of the unknown I guess.
I'm sure I can get some good info on preparation, along with any other direction.

Below is what I've got going

1st priority is our academic program where we expect the players to be accountable for their effort as a student and effort as a gentleman.
We will not keep jackasses on the team. As an organization we expect to be 1st class, so we have to be 1st class. Players, coaches, admin and parents. 
As a program we'll encourage players to achieve academically, and promote gentlemanly behavior towards others through recognition and rewards.
Direct contrast to the SNOOPDOG thread.

My intention is to run the same practices that were successful at 5/6 grade. I'll have to adapt to 7/8 graders maturity levels, I think. 
I have learned and practiced Dave Cisar's offensive system with championship success and intend to teach my team the 303 version.

I have a loyal DC that coached great teams with me in the past, I'm overjoyed that he has committed and he will run the defense with my help.
He will have to present his defenses in writing or we will run an odd 5-3 we used for years or transition into Dave's Viper 4-4. Our first conversation quickly turned to pass defense as at 5/6 we focused on pressure and 0 cover, now we are tossing around a man/zone concept. 
I think the 8th grade teams will run a lot of 4, 5 receivers and throw it a lot more, copying their HS . This is a difference from 5/6 that most concerns me.
The DC coached 4 years for a semi pro team so he is well aquanted with pass defense.
I have much to learn to make good decisions. 

My son is also a loyal coach who has coached a few years and can OC, I like to call plays but he will too.
He is young, 26 and is a great at demonstration as he played tailback and safety through HS.
I also have another young man, 23, my daughters BF. It will be his first year, but he has played as a youth and high schooler and can make the commitment. I'm very confident the offense will continue to be hard to stop at 7/8 level.
I'll have to buy one of Dave's DVDs so I can watch a 7/8 grade team, since I've yet to watch the older players run it. Although, I watched some highlights of Apopka HS and those are just like what we'd want to do.
 
I copied your speech about "Our Ball" in the past, although I've looked for that video to review but haven't found it yet.
Teaching that mentality, attitude and belief along with our "tackle, tackle, tackle" formula to win has been a perfect match.
Now we will take it up a notch. 5/6 and  3/4 grade we were running vicious rounds of tee time tackling among all the other what I call aggression drills with great enthusiasm and raucous fun. I'd like to learn more about how the players fight to get in drills and how that is implemented without chaos.

In the past we spent about half our time in fit freeze, vs air, vs bags, individual and group drills, very little warm up time and no direct conditioning time.

I use as much as I can learn from you guys   

"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22981
April 29, 2018 10:08 am  

A few things to consider....some you already touched on.

They are hitting puberty so a warm up routine is important. They are not made of rubber anymore.

More thud drilling when you go Team. If more tackling skills are in order do a lot of close quarters stuff.

MS is more demanding than Elementary School so there is that. They need to learn how to organize their time better.

They are now becoming smarter than you...and their parents.

Speed of the game tends to jump more than other age groups....goes back to puberty.

You will need a great coverage scheme due to the ability / commitment from opponents willing to pass.

They can retain more info so more is not necessarily a dirty word. Although more practice sessions is counter productive. These kids need their down time.

No longer will you be able to get the Kittens to chase the String with ease.

Being very good at Special Teams is now a must....all of them. ( we played a game yesterday where punting / punt returning was key )

Breaking down film now actually means something. You can even start doing this with the team.

Parents tend to be less anal.  If you appear to be doing a good job that is enough. No more....my son and I play catch all the time and he is a great QB. Reality has set in for them more times than not.

My number 1.....coaching this age group will become a bit easier for you and your Staff pretty quickly. Talent is more clear cut so its easier to place talent and coach them up. Your eye tests tend be right more than they are wrong.

My general thoughts. For many years I only coached 6th, 7th and 8th graders.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
April 29, 2018 5:29 pm  

I copied your speech about "Our Ball" in the past, although I've looked for that video to review but haven't found it yet.

It's on Vimeo.  Email me for the link.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
April 29, 2018 5:30 pm  

I'd like to learn more about how the players fight to get in drills and how that is implemented without chaos.

What's wrong with chaos?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
HCScott
(@herb-scott)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 363
April 30, 2018 6:43 pm  

DP,
I can see where chaos could be fun for the boys and coaches and excite the team. I'm curious how you 1st implement fighting to get in the drill?
I should just tell them if you want to play get in the drill?
Let the players mill around the drill cheering on their teammates instead of in a lineup?

BUT... there must be limits to the fighting, do you give them some instruction or rules to get in the drill and avoid actual fistfights?

I have a new team with no tradition. I have an opportunity to create tradition and want to do it right.

"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"


ReplyQuote
HCScott
(@herb-scott)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 363
April 30, 2018 6:45 pm  

A few things to consider....some you already touched on.

They are hitting puberty so a warm up routine is important. They are not made of rubber anymore.

More thud drilling when you go Team. If more tackling skills are in order do a lot of close quarters stuff.

MS is more demanding than Elementary School so there is that. They need to learn how to organize their time better.

They are now becoming smarter than you...and their parents.

Speed of the game tends to jump more than other age groups....goes back to puberty.

You will need a great coverage scheme due to the ability / commitment from opponents willing to pass.

They can retain more info so more is not necessarily a dirty word. Although more practice sessions is counter productive. These kids need their down time.

No longer will you be able to get the Kittens to chase the String with ease.

Being very good at Special Teams is now a must....all of them. ( we played a game yesterday where punting / punt returning was key )

Breaking down film now actually means something. You can even start doing this with the team.

Parents tend to be less anal.  If you appear to be doing a good job that is enough. No more....my son and I play catch all the time and he is a great QB. Reality has set in for them more times than not.

My number 1.....coaching this age group will become a bit easier for you and your Staff pretty quickly. Talent is more clear cut so its easier to place talent and coach them up. Your eye tests tend be right more than they are wrong.

My general thoughts. For many years I only coached 6th, 7th and 8th graders.

"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
April 30, 2018 9:34 pm  

DP,
I can see where chaos could be fun for the boys and coaches and excite the team.

--I'm not advocating for or defending "chaos."  I was just asking what was wrong with it, in your eyes?

I'm curious how you 1st implement fighting to get in the drill?
I should just tell them if you want to play get in the drill?
Let the players mill around the drill cheering on their teammates instead of in a lineup?

--That's all part of the P.A.I.N! Program and Aggression Development.  You'll get far more out of a phone call than from forum drivel.  It'll also give me an opportunity to ask you about what you do.  That helps me to see things through your eyes, if that makes sense.

there must be limits to the fighting

--No, not that I can think of.

do you give them some instruction or rules to get in the drill and avoid actual fistfights?

--There are no rules in fighting; fighting is fighting.  Don't know why you'd care about avoiding an actual fistfight when they're in full gear.  What is it that you think they're going to hurt?  Their fist from pounding on someone else's helmet?  I don't care if they fight, or not.  I care that they're willing to.  I basically ignore fights and move on.  Mosts fights don't last long when nobody's watching.

I have a new team with no tradition. I have an opportunity to create tradition and want to do it right.

--You have to decide what tradition you want to embrace and what type of program you want to build.  I think it starts with a Mission Statement.  When you have a Mission Statement and are completely aware of what your philosophy is going to be, the program you want to build and the tradition you want to establish, then you can start to choose the steps you'll take to make that happen.  The team I have now is the closest I have ever had in terms of understanding me, who I am, what I'm about and what I want.  In one year, we've established the best mindset of any group I've ever coached.  This comes from knowing exactly what we wanted when we arrived, and then implementing it directly.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Michael
(@michael)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 12890
May 1, 2018 1:51 pm  

What's wrong with chaos?

--Dave

Maybe he meant he'd like to learn it without chaos.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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MBCoach
(@mbcoach)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 63
May 11, 2018 11:35 pm  

Regarding the change from 5/6 to 7/8?
The potential differences so I prepare. Since I have not coached at this level and take it seriously I want to do the best job I can and learn as much as possible, I'm confident but some anxiety of the unknown I guess.
I'm sure I can get some good info on preparation, along with any other direction.

Below is what I've got going

1st priority is our academic program where we expect the players to be accountable for their effort as a student and effort as a gentleman.
We will not keep jackasses on the team. As an organization we expect to be 1st class, so we have to be 1st class. Players, coaches, admin and parents. 
As a program we'll encourage players to achieve academically, and promote gentlemanly behavior towards others through recognition and rewards.
Direct contrast to the SNOOPDOG thread.

My intention is to run the same practices that were successful at 5/6 grade. I'll have to adapt to 7/8 graders maturity levels, I think. 
I have learned and practiced Dave Cisar's offensive system with championship success and intend to teach my team the 303 version.

I have a loyal DC that coached great teams with me in the past, I'm overjoyed that he has committed and he will run the defense with my help.
He will have to present his defenses in writing or we will run an odd 5-3 we used for years or transition into Dave's Viper 4-4. Our first conversation quickly turned to pass defense as at 5/6 we focused on pressure and 0 cover, now we are tossing around a man/zone concept. 
I think the 8th grade teams will run a lot of 4, 5 receivers and throw it a lot more, copying their HS . This is a difference from 5/6 that most concerns me.
The DC coached 4 years for a semi pro team so he is well aquanted with pass defense.
I have much to learn to make good decisions. 

My son is also a loyal coach who has coached a few years and can OC, I like to call plays but he will too.
He is young, 26 and is a great at demonstration as he played tailback and safety through HS.
I also have another young man, 23, my daughters BF. It will be his first year, but he has played as a youth and high schooler and can make the commitment. I'm very confident the offense will continue to be hard to stop at 7/8 level.
I'll have to buy one of Dave's DVDs so I can watch a 7/8 grade team, since I've yet to watch the older players run it. Although, I watched some highlights of Apopka HS and those are just like what we'd want to do.
 
I copied your speech about "Our Ball" in the past, although I've looked for that video to review but haven't found it yet.
Teaching that mentality, attitude and belief along with our "tackle, tackle, tackle" formula to win has been a perfect match.
Now we will take it up a notch. 5/6 and  3/4 grade we were running vicious rounds of tee time tackling among all the other what I call aggression drills with great enthusiasm and raucous fun. I'd like to learn more about how the players fight to get in drills and how that is implemented without chaos.

In the past we spent about half our time in fit freeze, vs air, vs bags, individual and group drills, very little warm up time and no direct conditioning time.

I use as much as I can learn from you guys 

I think as others like Mahonz mentioned, you’ll notice a significant jump in the speed of the game. I could be wrong, and your area could be different than most, but I think you’ll struggle running a base defense with 8 in the box. I also think running 5 down lineman even in a 5-2, let alone a 5-3, is a mistake.

It’s common to see spread offenses, and a heavy emphasis is placed on the edges of the field. I have a 6th/7th grade team, and every single run call is an RPO, those are made about 50% of the time, other 50% straight pass plays. Meaning we throw the ball anywhere from 60-70% of our plays. I would kill to be able to see a 4-4 defense.

My league I’ve really only seen spread, DW, and some I stuff. Most defenses are an odd front 2 high


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
Platinum
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3255
May 12, 2018 4:07 am  

I did the opposite. Last year I went from 8th grade to 5th grade. That was eye opening.

I ran Jack's 6-3 for several years and my 8th graders made it to regional finals with a 6 man front. There is no requirement to go 4-2-5 with 7/8th graders as teams can't throw as much as you think at that point and there are adjustments that can be made.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
May 12, 2018 5:24 am  

Last year I went from 8th grade to 5th grade. That was eye opening.

It’s always an eye-opener when you go from one age group to another.  I may be coaching youth or middle school ball next year and even though I’ve done it before, I’m sure there’s going to be some culture shock there.

—Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
Platinum
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3255
May 12, 2018 9:26 am  

It’s always an eye-opener when you go from one age group to another.  I may be coaching youth or middle school ball next year and even though I’ve done it before, I’m sure there’s going to be some culture shock there.

—Dave

I also went from a team that was undefeated in 7th grade and then Regional finalists in 8th to a team of 4th/5th graders where 18 of 20 had never played football before. Different world. 😀


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17463
North Carolina
High School
May 12, 2018 12:47 pm  

I also went from a team that was undefeated in 7th grade and then Regional finalists in 8th to a team of 4th/5th graders where 18 of 20 had never played football before. Different world.

The "experience thing" has never been an issue for me.  I coach every player as if he's never seen the game before.  My adjustment has always been to the level of sophistication of the game being coached.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
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