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Coach Kyle
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We’re having trouble with our back up quarterback and the starting center. I’ve determined that the starting center takes a step while snapping the ball while the backup center snaps the ball and then takes a step. The backup QB’s hands seem to stay stationary after the snap while the aiming point seems to move. And that causes the ball, when snapped, to push the backup’s hand’s upward because the butt that would have been a backstop is no longer there. The starter seems to be slightly more talented at just catching the snap that the starting center gives. The center’s first step does appear to be larger than it should be, but I don’t know if that should matter. Should I force the backup to move him aiming point further in? I do consistently say (and I’m pretty sure we’re getting) the back up to put pressure on the top of top hand. His hands and fingers are open, and the wrists are not coming apart when he takes the snap. Any advice?

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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gumby_in_co
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3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

Do that, and see if your QB has trouble pulling the ball in and taking his first step.  If so, he might have to adopt a bit of a rocking motion, bending the knee over his foremost foot as the ball arrives (so he doesn't have to do it all with his elbows), and then pushing off that foot as he pulls the ball in.

A lot of this is "have to see it", like getting down in front of the snapper and seeing the exchange mechanics.  Best thing would be for that pair of players to work it out themselves by feel with lots of reps.  I anticipated this problem with our players, explaining that with the step, the snapper's crotch would be moving.  However, I expected the QB to have to adjust to that mostly sideways, since our snapper's initial step is a short one at an angle.  You're saying your starting C's step is larger than you'd like, which probably affects his blocking too.


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

Why would you push your hands forward? I thought part of the purpose of pressing your hands on the center's butt is for him to feel the aiming point. Pushing your hands forward on hit makes it so that the aiming point is moving. Is this to compensate for the center's step?

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

Do that, and see if your QB has trouble pulling the ball in and taking his first step.  If so, he might have to adopt a bit of a rocking motion, bending the knee over his foremost foot as the ball arrives (so he doesn't have to do it all with his elbows), and then pushing off that foot as he pulls the ball in.

A lot of this is "have to see it", like getting down in front of the snapper and seeing the exchange mechanics.  Best thing would be for that pair of players to work it out themselves by feel with lots of reps.  I anticipated this problem with our players, explaining that with the step, the snapper's crotch would be moving.  However, I expected the QB to have to adjust to that mostly sideways, since our snapper's initial step is a short one at an angle.  You're saying your starting C's step is larger than you'd like, which probably affects his blocking too.

So you're also saying to have them move their hands with the center's butt, right? That's probably what I'm teaching wrong.

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coach-kyle
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

Why would you push your hands forward? I thought part of the purpose of pressing your hands on the center's butt is for him to feel the aiming point. Pushing your hands forward on hit makes it so that the aiming point is moving. Is this to compensate for the center's step?

If you are already pressing your hands into the center's "gooch", then you'd have to be one hell of a strong kid to move the center with your hands. The idea behind the 2nd P is that if you watch carefully, the QB naturally wants to start his footwork as soon as his brain says "hit". This causes him to vacate early and why 99% of fumbled snaps happen. Space between the QB's hands and the center's "gooch" as the ball arrives. Pushing forward forces the QB to stay in for a fraction of a second. Just long enough for the ball to arrive. I teach it that way whether the center steps as he snaps or not.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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We teach it in reverse. QB holds the ball in perfect position under center, center than takes it and we go back and forth. Getting faster.  We also dead ball snap under center so there less likely to screw up

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @coach-kyle
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

3 P's:

Press your hands hard into the center's neither regions

Push your hands forward when you say "Hit" (or whatever you say)

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

2nd "P" (Push hands forward) should do the trick.

Why would you push your hands forward? I thought part of the purpose of pressing your hands on the center's butt is for him to feel the aiming point. Pushing your hands forward on hit makes it so that the aiming point is moving. Is this to compensate for the center's step?

If you are already pressing your hands into the center's "gooch", then you'd have to be one hell of a strong kid to move the center with your hands. The idea behind the 2nd P is that if you watch carefully, the QB naturally wants to start his footwork as soon as his brain says "hit". This causes him to vacate early and why 99% of fumbled snaps happen. Space between the QB's hands and the center's "gooch" as the ball arrives. Pushing forward forces the QB to stay in for a fraction of a second. Just long enough for the ball to arrive. I teach it that way whether the center steps as he snaps or not.

I wasn't saying that he was moving the center with his arm strength. I was saying that by moving his hands forward on the snap, you change the aiming point. In other words, the center was aiming for a certain spot (the spot he felt) and then at the last second you move from that spot.

I see now why you do it, and it's different from there reason that I thought. 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @bucksweep58

We teach it in reverse. QB holds the ball in perfect position under center, center than takes it and we go back and forth. Getting faster.  We also dead ball snap under center so there less likely to screw up

Good drill. 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coach-kyle

 

I wasn't saying that he was moving the center with his arm strength. I was saying that by moving his hands forward on the snap, you change the aiming point. In other words, the center was aiming for a certain spot (the spot he felt) and then at the last second you move from that spot.

I see now why you do it, and it's different from there reason that I thought. 

Yeah. The hands do not move in relation to the Center. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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I don’t understand the “aiming point” for the C. He can’t see anything to aim at. It’s almost never the C’s fault. All he has to do is hit himself in the butthole with an object he holding in his hand… hard to screw that up. 

It’s almost always the QB’s fault. Darrin Slack has some really good stuff out there for the QB’s on the exchange. 

The old wrist to wrist method isn’t very good. The better way is by putting the thumbs together but it would be impossible for me to describe. The throwing hand is the top hand and the off hand is the bottom hand and it pushes up to keep the pressure. 

“Drop the butt on the hut” similar to what Lar was describing. We have our guys take a slight drop in their crouch at the signal to snap. That keeps them from pulling out early. I can’t tell you the last time we fumbled an exchange after changing those 2 things. We also go back and forth between UC and gun. 


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @seabass

I don’t understand the “aiming point” for the C. He can’t see anything to aim at.

Sheesh, and I thought I was pedantic at times here!  It's by feel.  The point is, there are landmarks on his own body that he uses to regulate his movement of the ball consistently.

It’s almost never the C’s fault. All he has to do is hit himself in the butthole with an object he holding in his hand… hard to screw that up. 

 

That much we agree on.

 

 

It’s almost always the QB’s fault. Darrin Slack has some really good stuff out there for the QB’s on the exchange. 

The old wrist to wrist method isn’t very good. The better way is by putting the thumbs together but it would be impossible for me to describe. The throwing hand is the top hand and the off hand is the bottom hand and it pushes up to keep the pressure. 

Maybe impossible for you, but others here have described it, even with subtle variations.  And I agree that the methods that have the QB make a dihedral angle by the wrists are inferior.  They work, but are hard to keep from getting out of form from.  So many youth QBs who insist they aren't separating their wrists indeed are doing so a split second before the ball arrives.  I've seen it where all you do is take your eyes off them for 2 reps and by the 3rd they're doing that again.  The hardest is sending the ball thru with its long axis fully horizontal and parallel to the line of scrimmage, because it requires the most clearance in the snapper's crotch (especially if the QB's keeping pressure against the snapper's scrotum) and the most arm twist by the QB -- and yet this is coached by a plurality, maybe even a majority of coaches.

Sidesaddle -- even doing it different ways sidesaddle -- eliminates these problems.  However, among ways to take the snap straight on, the "thumbs" methods are almost, or equally, as good as sidesaddle, and are especially good if the snapper also uses either a "dead" or end-over-end technique on thrown snaps.

“Drop the butt on the hut” similar to what Lar was describing. We have our guys take a slight drop in their crouch at the signal to snap. That keeps them from pulling out early. I can’t tell you the last time we fumbled an exchange after changing those 2 things. We also go back and forth between UC and gun. 

Interesting.  I was saying to bend just one knee, you're having him bend both.  Have you tried it with just one knee?  I thought it might make for a quicker (but not premature) getaway by the QB, but I haven't tried comparing.


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Coyote
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

Do you have trouble with the trapping OG running into the QB?   We usually struggle the 1st few practices due to the QBs not moving fast enough to get out of the OG's path.  This seems to slow the QB down even more.  

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coyote 

Do you have trouble with the trapping OG running into the QB?   We usually struggle the 1st few practices due to the QBs not moving fast enough to get out of the OG's path.  This seems to slow the QB down even more.  

How much are the C-G splits, and how deep is the G's recess?


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coyote
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Pull the ball into your crotch before pivoting/moving

 

Do you have trouble with the trapping OG running into the QB?   We usually struggle the 1st few practices due to the QBs not moving fast enough to get out of the OG's path.  This seems to slow the QB down even more.  

We didn't install a trap this year. Last year we did and didn't struggle with the OG hitting the QB. There were plenty of opportunities for struggle elsewhere. The Pull part comes from my DW days when a QB spinning around in circles in a phone booth with the ball a foot or more from his body was a recipe for a fumble.

Back in the DW days, we ran plenty of traps with no problems with PPP. However, we blocked TKO, so the play side got out of the way so the pulling guard could crossover pull. Outside of Flex football, I never really messed with the lawnmower pull.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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