I have the same story, except it wasn't the HC, it was the WR coach. My son was the kicker and I told him to kick it to "Tiny Tim" and try to recover it. WR coach stormed onto the field and screamed at my son, "NO! YOU KICK IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!!"
Sounds like the coaching staff had little idea of knowing what the approach was supposed to be, before finding themselves in a game situation. Most coaching staff game day sideline arguments I've seen stem from the fact that systems have not been finalized and the header hasn't made the staff understand this is how we run, tackle, kick, scheme, scout, block, return a punt, catch a pass, take a hand-off, etc. They also occur when one coach tries to influence another coach's responsibility; say for instance, a WR coach trying to tell players on Special Teams what to do.
I'd say the lesson here is not whether you should have been kicking onside (or not), but the staff not already knowing how it is you approach kick-offs and who is responsible for relaying whatever information to the kicker. And if the WR coach already knew that it was YOUR call, then he should have been fired that day.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
39% in the youth game can get it done, especially if you are a run first team. In my neck of the woods, about 1/5 completions is a TD. Also, 39% is enough to force young LBs/secondary to choose between doing 2 things and choosing wrong is bad.
--If you're looking to just "get it done" then rock on. "Getting it done" and "Getting it done well" are two different things and I prefer the latter. I know that passes (even incomplete ones) can open up a defense. I just prefer to be really good at what we do, in all facets.
I'd try to get better at passing.
--Not if I'm at 39%. In my mind, that's nowhere near where I should be. If I'm at 39%, there are two reasons: Either I don't have the talent to do it any better, or I'm not a good enough coach to coach it better. Either one of those reasons is good enough for me to leave it alone. Why have players try to execute something they're not good at? Why try to coach something that I struggle at? I am no passing guru. But in years where we've passed the ball well, it's because I taught what I knew was simple to execute, and I was able to save time in practice using my DBs as receivers so pass catching drills doubled as interception drills.
I saw something very concerning in our post season festival. Two of the top teams in our age group were playing each other and one ran a read option . . . well. I can't tell you how many teams I've seen in the last 10 years who pretended to run a read option, but you could tell the "option" was pre-called. This particular QB, though was the first youth QB that I've seen actually read the EMLOS and make a decision and that worries me. However, I agree with you that if that QB gets hurt, suspended, sick, forgets his helmet, etc . . . then that entire offense and all the hours that went into are done.
--As I said, reading a defense can be taught, even to youngins. But at what expense and how many things are you going to be good at? If you have committed to being an option team then have at it. But the problem is, many youth headers and OCs think they can sprinkle in some option with proficiency and not have other aspects of their offense suffer. Other issues with it are that many youth defenses are so bad with assignment, that it becomes difficult to make a "correct" read. And if the players or coaches are talented enough to teach a successful option game at that age level, they're probably talented enough to win using any other scheme. The option was designed to put (good) defenses in conflict. If you aren't facing a good defense that schematically knows how to play (and I'm guessing that's 7 games out of an 8 game schedule), then what's the point of an install? To simply show that you can do it? A kid may be one heckuva option QB, but what difference does it make if he's not playing against any defenses that know how to match up? And as for the lone QB going down and having your offense be left in a vulnerable position, no that's not me.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
Several Years back. We scored with 20 seconds left go up by 2 points, 20-18 during the last game of a Winless season. I tell the Header to kick the ball out of bounds and make them score against our defense. He tells me I'm F-ing Nuts and kicks it deep. We lost 24-20.
Happens more often than you know!
I have the same story, except it wasn't the HC, it was the WR coach. My son was the kicker and I told him to kick it to "Tiny Tim" and try to recover it. WR coach stormed onto the field and screamed at my son, "NO! YOU KICK IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!!" After we lost, WR coach told the team in post game that he'd never been more disgusted with a team and told them "Be ready to run on Monday."
With us last season, it was the DC pressuring the HC to kick it deep. He felt that our on-sides kicks were hindering the defense. Our HC knew it was a bad decision. But, he decided to let the DC have a 'learning experience'. The result was as expected. It was ran back for a TD. Needless to say, I was all kinds of unhappy.
“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ” ― Frederick Douglass
With us last season, it was the DC pressuring the HC to kick it deep. He felt that our on-sides kicks were hindering the defense. Our HC knew it was a bad decision. But, he decided to let the DC have a 'learning experience'. The result was as expected. It was ran back for a TD. Needless to say, I was all kinds of unhappy.
That's a weak head coach. He knows it's a bad decision but goes ahead with it anyway. I don't get it...didn't the header make it clear to his staff the why & how of his KO coverage? Didn't the DC see how KO coverage was handled at practice? Hopefully, you were up by at least 3 touchdowns when your header gave the DC a "learning experience."
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
I'm posting out here so that I can keep an eye on the thread. My answers to this question will depend on whether we're moving to North Georgia this summer or not.
Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer
What is your philosophy? Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
Best one ever !
What is beautiful, lives forever.
Wing T, I run it because that’s what I know and what I’m comfortable teaching. Deception in the backfield is huge at the youth level and the wing T does that while still being versatile enough to adapt it to your talent each year.
Amen, Brother. Last night I thought it'd be a good exercise to think thru and write out my own responses, then I read your comment, today, and its almost identical to my own. Being a fairly frequent poster, I'm going to wait till the thread runs down before posting my own.
Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?
We were winning 12-7 in game 7 of a season that ended up 0-8. 3 plays left in the game (we go by play count) and we are facing 4th and 20 from our own 5 yard line. We did not have punt installed, which was for the best because we could not block to save our lives. So the plan was to go "QB right" for the 4th consecutive time in hopes that this one would go for 20+ instead of -6 like the previous 3 plays.
I suggested to the HC that we take a safety. He looked at me like I grew a 2nd head. I explained, we give them 2 points, but are still in the lead, then we kick to them and force to win with 1 play remaining from about 25 yards out (60 yard field). Deer in the headlights.
His father in law is a local HS coach and ran up to him and said "Tell your QB to take a safety". Suddenly HC's eyes lit up and he looked at me and said "Do it!". I called the QB over (my son) to tell him to take the snap and run out the back of the end zone. While I was doing that, WR coach asked HC, "What are we doing". HC explained that we're taking a safety and WR coach yelled at me from 20 yards away something to the effect of "You're an idiot". No one spoke up for me . . . whatever. WR coach was HC's brother in law and another son in law to the HS HC.
So WR coach is fuming and see's me telling my son (I was in charge of ST) to kick it to a front line kid literally squatting on his heels and playing in the dirt. WR heard me tell him " . . . and try to recover it if you can. We'll win this game". WR screams at my son and points downfield, "NO! YOU KICK IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!!". He kicked it to their stud standing with his heels on the 10 and the rest is history.
The WR coach dominated the post game with how the team "gave up" blah blah blah and warned them that we'd be running for 2 straight hours on Monday. I told the HC that my son won't be coming to practice if you're planning on "running them". On Monday, he asked where my son was, so I told him he wasn't coming. He replied, then I'll have to bench him for the next game. I said, "We're both fine with that, and I'd appreciate it if you'd just fire me right now". HC huddled with the other coaches, then announced, "We're not running today", then asked me to call my wife and bring my son to practice.
So as you can see, we had much bigger problems than not having practiced onside kicks.
When in doot . . . glass and oot.
I saw something very concerning in our post season festival. Two of the top teams in our age group were playing each other and one ran a read option . . . well. I can't tell you how many teams I've seen in the last 10 years who pretended to run a read option, but you could tell the "option" was pre-called. This particular QB, though was the first youth QB that I've seen actually read the EMLOS and make a decision and that worries me. However, I agree with you that if that QB gets hurt, suspended, sick, forgets his helmet, etc . . . then that entire offense and all the hours that went into are done.
Was WR zone blocking? A WT5 front will crush all hopes if they were zone blocking. I learned that about 100 years ago when we tried to copy Urban Meyers Utah Offense. It was the latest cool thing to try but we quickly sent it to the shredder since we never faced College Fronts at the 7th grade level.
Fast forward 50 years when the old Outlaws played the Lightening. They were pretty darn good at the read option. So we played a WT5 front and crushed them.
Problem is...we didn't any answers for the rest of their Offense. ?
What is beautiful, lives forever.
What are you planning on doing differently next season and why?
- We are going to be 8th grade. Last year as my daughter is aging out.
- Spend more time with the O-line. Groom an AC to take more responsibility. Try to recruit one other coach that has a clue.
- Learn more about defense. Tweak offense to enable to get us in better positions and run more out of the spread. Work on myself to enable better, more intense practices. Be more organized with the coaching staff.
If you are planning on staying the course, what does this mean and why are you doing it?
- How competitive is your team?
- We are not. Won one game last season. Our second game, we had 4….FOUR touchdowns called back and I think we lost some of our desire and intensity as an overall team. They were called back for valid reasons
- What is your competition like?
- Ranges from very regionally competitive traveling tournament teams, to teams that don’t know how to line up or get into a stance.
- What drives you crazy?
- Confusion on the field and bad parents
- What makes it worthwhile?
- Relationships with the kids and some of the families.
- What offense are you running and why?
- Beast and Spread, all gun. Why? Our talent is a mixed bag along with player experience. I ran the I previous year and had more success from the spread when I mixed it in. I want to focus on more running from the spread this coming year.
- What defense are you running and why?
- Ran 4-4 (knew it the best) and transitioned to a 4-3 cover 2, which I like. Interestingly enough, this helped me in some of my issues with outside runs.
- What is your approach to special teams?
- I only spend time on Kickoff and KR. I will never kick the ball to their best player in open space at the youth level, so we did not punt. Punt return was just putting our best guy deep. We onside kicked every time.
- What makes you stand out from your peers?
- Not sure I do.
- What is your philosophy?
- I want to be competitive, like everyone else. I want to help the kids garner a love for the game and competition, not drive kids away from it. I see that happen on some of the teams.
Are your ideas and thoughts going to get picked apart? Most certainly (this is, after all an online forum), but so what? If they are solid, then defend them. If not, you've identified an opportunity for improvement.
Being picked apart is OK, other viewpoints help me learn.
Okay, too many quotes inside of quotes and that makes my eyes bleed 😛 and sorry, for some reason, my boss actually needed me to work yesterday and the better part of today...
We run the offense we run and throw as often as we can, because we have the time to teach it, in the fall, it was too expensive because we didn't have spring (which is a lot of the time we teach the passing aspects of the game). In the fall, we had Slant/Arrow, Slant/Wheel (same play, except the slot turns the arrow route into a wheel) and fast screens to the 1s and the slots. Based on the coverage we saw, and how the kids played the coverage, the OC would always tell the QB who was going to be open...and...he was right about 99% of the time...why we didn't complete the passes 99% of the time, well plain and simply poor execution of some sort...
- Dropped ball
- DE hit my QB in the mouth when he was throwing because the T decided to double inside with the G against a 5 man front (brain fart)
- Wheel route was wide open, my slot stopped, because he was so wide open behind the defense.
- Poor Route Running Dragged another defender into the area we were throwing into
- Etc.
But, because we have the spring, I can work on these things with the kids, last season we were supposed to have spring, we had 3 weeks before Covid shut us down.
If I had only the fall season to work on this offense, or if I didn't have the participation I have from my team in the spring, I certainly would not be running this offense. I would be DTDW, and we would throw the ball once per game, maybe twice, from play action, when we saw the Corners and/or the Safeties cheating up, and we would be somewhere around 80% completion...following your logic Dave, we should abandon the run when in DTDW, because we pass the ball with such success ?
We have a simple wrist coach system for the passing plays, we list the routes from left to right, i.e., Lime (left) Slant/Arrow - Slant, Arrow, Seam, Fade, F (he always runs the F route, regardless of where we line him up, a rule that is understood) Right Flat. So if we are 2x2 or 3x1 or empty, we always run the same thing from left to right. What we need to work on is pre-snap spacing, post snap spacing, sharp cuts (not lazy rounded off ones), and running the route full speed, even if you know you are not getting the football, because, maybe you are 🙂 and of course catching the ball.
We learn from failure, and yes, we can in fact learn from success, but the lessons are not as memorable, or, interesting and could be out right wrong...for example...I have a big strong 9 year old tackle...he also moves around my defensive line...he weighed in at 160 pounds last season, and he was something like 5'3"...big cat, fairly athletic for a kid his size...can he block the kid in front of him? Yes, without a doubt, and he doesn't even have to come off the ball hard or use good technique. He got his block, the play went off, success right? What did he learn? I can block this kid without doing what coach is showing me, what coach is showing me is harder, he wants me low, he wants my hands inside, he wants the weight on the insides of my feet. Why should I do all that when all I have to do is stand up and push the kid and he falls down?
Hard for me to find a match up this kid is going to lose, using lineman...so, I line him up against maybe my Y, he is still a boatload bigger, and certainly stronger...but no where near as athletic...and so I do this, and when he fails, then I can teach him...he beat you because you were high and didn't move your feet. He beat you because you had to hold him, he beat you because you could not change direction because your feet were too close together...
Apply this logic to the passing game...You dropped that pass because your hands were not right, or you dropped that pass because you didn't look the ball away and started running first. We didn't complete that pass because you were not in the right spot, or you stopped, or your cut was rounded off which didn't make the Corner or Safety turn his hips, etc.
We can learn from success or failure...but learning from failure is more memorable, at least for me...I hate to lose 🙂
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.
We are working on that play this spring...our QB is smart and has ice in his veins...he rides the F while reading the unblocked DEMLOS...DEMLOS plays the dive, pull it and run around the DEMLOS...he sits and squats or widens...give it to the F. The intention is he will actually be making the read...we ran it last fall and if we wanted him to pull it, we would Q tag it...i.e., Veer Right Q.
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.
LOL! No, we were definitely not up by 3 TD's when we kicked deep that game. We only won 3 games last season. The team we were playing weren't any better than we were. Fortunately, we were able to win that one.
I know why the HC went ahead with the kick. He is trying to get more coaches involved in the game. By saying 'involved' I mean learning to be effective coaches. These additional coaches are not adding any real value as a staff- except for one. The guy filling in as DC last season was an asst. coach the prior season. He grumbled then about on-sides kicks, also. We explained why we kick on-sides. Still, he wasn't going to believe the on-side kicks were better than deep kicks until he saw it for himself. The HC decided to let him see it for himself.
I'm not trying to bash the HC or these new coaches. The HC and I have worked well together for several seasons. But, mainly, it has always just been the two of us with a couple of dads as assistants (bag holders) as their sons moved through our level. These new coaches are more permanent. We have some real issues within our staff that need to be corrected. I'll be the HC next season. I will have the opportunity to correct those issues. It's going to be a bit of an uphill struggle in some areas. The DC won't be a problem. He acknowledges that he has a lot to learn as a coach and DC duties won't be on his shoulders next season, anyway. There is one coach that might end up being problematic. I may have to fire him, altogether. But, I won't jump to conclusions. He'll get the same fair chance as everybody else to become an asset.
“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ” ― Frederick Douglass
The advantage to Pistol, at least in my book for Youth Level, is the QB is already at the equivalent of a 3 step drop. This "SHOULD" be highly advantageous for the short and intermediate Passing game as well as enhancing his ability to Move. Mini Roll Outs, Waggles
Scott is correct. However, what I see from most youth teams is that the snap is inconsistent and so slow, low, high, etc. that the time saved in a 3-step drop is lost by the QB trying to gather the ball.
...and/or looking at the ball instead of the coverage.
Latest Post: 2023 7th Grade Outlaws Our newest member: cialispro2 Recent Posts Unread Posts
