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CoachDP
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September 18, 2020 6:01 pm  
Posted by: @cocoachkc

Anytime they complained my wife or I would always ask them, "what are you going to do about it?" 

--I really like that.  It teaches him the responsibility of decisions and action.

This holds true for the "owies."  If a parent coddles a child over the mildest of scrapes, that will make building confidence in that player more difficult.  Because it is football the kids are going to get scrapes, cuts and bruises.  Coaches need to recognize this in their players and develop plans to get the kids beyond this barrier.  Each kid is different.  But, the reality is there are some kids who will never get beyond this.

--True enough.

But, coaches may not always be successful in developing football players.  And that is okay, too.

--Agree that we can't always develop them.  Disagree that it's okay.  Drives me nuts when I haven't been able to get from a player what I feel like I should be getting.  I feel like I've failed him.  BTW--You don't post often enough.

--Dave

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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September 20, 2020 8:34 pm  

Update from the 9/19 game. 

Fear is gone from H and P. Both played against physically superior players all day and both brought the effort. I started H at DT, but benched him for awhile for going off script.

S?  I didn't watch him because he doesn't play in my position group. Mahonz did say, we need to get him blocking with authority. On one play, he was supposed to block backside for pass pro and completely missed. QB got hit as he threw. I don't know if this was a physical/aggression issue, though. Might have just been confused.

I've got sort of an opposite problem right now. It goes along with "How they are raised". 2 of our players want nothing to do with football right now. I believe it's because their dads are brow-beating them over football. One's in my position group, the other isn't.  I can quickly get over a 40+ to zero loss, but this crap has been bothering me all weekend.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Prodigy
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September 21, 2020 9:07 am  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Former MPP lights up S, giving him a bruise on his forearm. S spends the rest of the night holding his arm and complaining that it hurts . . . "real bad". 

Makes me wonder how he was raised...

I'm frankly surprised to hear that from you.

DP already addressed it but I'm going to tag along here with some thoughts also.

Knowing the upbringing of the player doesn't change, fundamentally, what we do or how we do it.  Knowing more about a player does however; have an impact on how I'm going to have one-on-one interactions with the player.  Knowing whether a player is the type of kid to never complain vs. the kid who is always trying to avoid something that makes him uncomfortable, is useful information.

A number of years ago, I became interested in dog training.  I see a number of parallels between this pursuit and coaching.  A kid saying that his arm hurts really bad is comparable to "avoidance".  In avoidance behavior, the occurrence of the behavior prevents the presentation of an aversive stimulus. In other words, the dog avoids the aversive stimulus by doing another behavior.  Children quickly learn that they can forego attending school if they complain that their stomach hurts.  This behavior is positively reinforced when their parents accept the story and allow the child to stay home.

As a coach, I set a clear expectation that lying around on the football field is only acceptable if you're 1) unconscious 2) have a broken neck, back or legs which prevent you from standing up and walking to the sideline.  Heck, my own son suffered an absolutely disgusting arm break during a game, arm looked like spaghetti, basically only tendons, muscle and skin were holding the arm onto his body...and he got up and walked to the sideline on his own...game didn't stop for an injury timeout even. 

I generally want my players thinking that I only care whether they can play / practice or not.  I may have even said at some point that I'm not a doctor and their choices for say a hurt arm are "it hurts so bad that I need to go to the hospital" or "it's a little banged up but I'm ok."  I want the kids to have the grit along with the emotional maturity to make decisions for themselves, to fight through some discomfort instead of developing some excuse to avoid the discomfort.  Of course, what the players don't know is that I report their boo boos to mom and dad after practice or the game and follow up with the parents on the issue to ensure the player is ok.

 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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gumby_in_co
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September 21, 2020 9:45 am  

@prodigy

"I don't believe in Band-Aids. You either need stitches, or you're fine" - Beau Bennet - The Ranch

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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September 21, 2020 10:20 am  
Posted by: @prodigy

I generally want my players thinking that I only care whether they can play / practice or not. 

I told my players, "If you're hurt, then let us know and we'll take care of it.  If you're lying on the ground and I have to come out on the field to check on you, you won't be going back in."  Amazing the number of times our opponent had players lying down on the field in all sorts of turmoil, while our guys (with perhaps just as many owies) just came to the sideline to get whatever it was taken care of.

I've had refs tell me, "Coach, you got a man down," while I just stood there on the sideline waiting to see what our player was going to do.  If I had to leave the sideline, I usually got only a few steps onto the field before our kid was getting back up.  Interesting what kids can do when they have a little inspiration. lol

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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September 21, 2020 10:27 am  

Years ago, we had a 10-year-old waive us off while he was throwing up on the field, while awaiting a kick-off.  We told the ref, "He'll be fine."  Kid knew we had other players who were only too glad to take his place.  Kid was tough, though.  And we used it as a teaching moment: "Trey is so tough that he refused to come out even though he was puking on the field!"  Kid went on to play college football.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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September 21, 2020 1:00 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @prodigy

I generally want my players thinking that I only care whether they can play / practice or not. 

I've had refs tell me, "Coach, you got a man down," while I just stood there on the sideline waiting to see what our player was going to do.  If I had to leave the sideline, I usually got only a few steps onto the field before our kid was getting back up.  Interesting what kids can do when they have a little inspiration. lol

--Dave

Just about every other game or so. I just look at the ref, "He's fine." We've had refs "order" us to get our player and we've refused. Our players will grab a kid and pull him to his feet to protect the "mojo" score.

We lost the "mojo" this weekend. Our QB/CB sprained his ankle pretty good on an interception. It was legit, though. We went and got him and he hopped off the field on one foot. Giving up this Mojo point is acceptable. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Prodigy
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September 22, 2020 9:38 am  

A number of years ago I was invited to coach our conference all stars squad.  I think we had a week or two to prepare to play against another conference.  We had a handful of other head coaches from other teams and pretty much the best players from all of our conference.

During one of the practices, someone got "hurt" while running a drill with another set of coaches.  I handed off what I was doing to another coach and went over to check on this young man.  He was laying on the ground and my stomach was in knots thinking the worst.  As I got closer, one of the AC's from another team told me "It's an elbow coach."  I knelt down and asked the player what was wrong and he confirmed it was an elbow...I very aggressively asked why he was lying on the ground and encouraged him to get up and take himself to the sideline.

I'm certain that every other coach there, from all of the other teams thought I was out of my mind.  They had a look of horror, confusion and displeasure in their eyes.
As a side note: coaching all stars was not a great dynamic because of having a multitude of coaches present that had not been indoctrinated in how we do things.  Fortunately they didn't put up much fuss and practice continued, player was fine.

We ran our system...mostly.  If I remember correctly, we shutout the other conference with a score of 56-0 or something...it was pretty lopsided.

I suppose my biggest hope of participating in this fiasco was to raise the bar some.  Pull away the curtain a little and let the other coaches see how we ran stuff, maybe they'd adopt some of it and we'd end up with some better competition the following year.  That didn't really happen. 

 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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CoachDP
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September 22, 2020 9:58 am  
Posted by: @prodigy

I knelt down and asked the player what was wrong and he confirmed it was an elbow...I very aggressively asked why he was lying on the ground and encouraged him to get up and take himself to the sideline.

--Exactly.  You don't walk on your elbows.  Nothing keeping him from being able to walk off the field, hurt or not.

I'm certain that every other coach there, from all of the other teams thought I was out of my mind.  They had a look of horror, confusion and displeasure in their eyes.

--lol.  Been there.

coaching all stars was not a great dynamic because of having a multitude of coaches present that had not been indoctrinated in how we do things.

--This, this and this ^.  Which is why I wouldn't do it.

I suppose my biggest hope of participating in this fiasco was to raise the bar some.  Pull away the curtain a little and let the other coaches see how we ran stuff, maybe they'd adopt some of it and we'd end up with some better competition the following year.  That didn't really happen. 

--No, it didn't.  But I remember that you were hopeful.  And you tried.  You can lead a horse to water...

--Dave

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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September 22, 2020 10:10 am  

@prodigy

My first 2 years of coaching, I was an AC on my son's 2nd and 3rd grade teams. We got beat like a drum a occasionally. Kids were dropping like flies and we coaches got a workout running from the sideline to the field, medevacing our casualties. We got pretty good at coaching up a kids to take a snap and run a QB sneak who had never taken a snap before. I expected this because we were an awful staff and the HC didn't see anything wrong with how we coaches were doing things . . . other than giving him too many "ideas" and confusing him.

I left that team and coached with CO_Coach_KC. I was proud to be on a staff that knew what we were doing. We were technicians of the DW and 33 Stack Attack defense. Yet . . . we had 2 or 3 games where we started out competitive, but completely folded in the 2nd half as our kids got hurt, laid down on the field, etc. etc and a competitive game devolved into a rout.

In the off season, we decided, "no more". We both made a few phone calls and exchanged emails with DP and never looked back. I believe that was 2008.  Since then, "dragging your carcass off the field under your own power" has been a cornerstone of my coaching philosophy. Then, I started coaching with Mahonz and found a kindred spirit on the importance of Mojo.

In that time, 14 seasons (including Spring), I've come to realize that "injuries" in football are rare. 3 broken bones (arm, wrist, hand), a dislocated ankle (my son) a dislocated pinky finger and a dislocated elbow, I believe. Maybe 1 or 2 concussions per season on average. 

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Prodigy
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September 22, 2020 11:44 am  

I agree, true to life injuries, are really pretty rare in youth football.  The worst that I witnessed was my own son and I wasn't coaching, I was spectating that game.
Stuff happens.  In my early years, I remember a more experienced coach than I was at the time, remarking on how kids seemed like they got hurt more when the game was not going well for them.  The more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's probably avoidance on full display.

When you create the environment where the unit is battle-hardened and ready to play, the incidences of the minor bang-ups seems to disappear.  What you typically receive in exchange for your preparation is the accusation of being a dirty team.  When you're on top, it changes everything.  You have to be careful about what you say...small, seemingly innocent things can be perceived in weird ways.

For example...Prior to every game, coaches will often tell the opposition "good luck."  For many, many years, back when I stunk as a coach, I never valued luck and I always would let this be known.  When someone would say "good luck" I would typically reply "we don't like to rely on luck."  Sometimes I'd get a snicker from the opposition, other times maybe a brief reply about how luck is valuable or an agreement about how lady luck is pretty fickle.

I received a call from the conference president following a game...former Marine, had a great rapport with the guy.  He felt awkward in bringing it to me, because he thought it was unfounded but apparently someone had said to him that he wished me luck and I replied "We don't need luck...we're a much better team than you are and luck won't be a part of todays game.  We are going to whip your ass."

Now the conference president knew this was bologna...but he had promised the other coach he would speak with me about it.  President knew in his heart that I would NEVER say anything like that EVER to another coach, let alone in private.  It's just not how I view competition.  Truth be told, we'd show up for games and I wouldn't know how they were going to go.  I wasn't ever confident in how the team was going to perform...I just did my best to prepare them and I hoped we were better prepared than they were...I also always did my best to be respectful, because I think it would be pretty crappy to show up for a game, talk a bunch of crap and then lose. 

This incident did get me thinking about how we were viewed...how I was viewed.  There were things I thought were kind of cool...like when parents reported to me that they heard our opposition's parents nearby, talking in the stands about how their kids had nightmares the night prior knowing they were going to play us.  I mean...c'mon, that's pretty cool.  You're winning on a mental front if kids are losing sleep about playing you...but some of the other stuff was just unfounded. We never coached dirty football, we never encouraged any sort of unsportsmanlike stuff, we never tried to bend the rules or cheat in any way.  We didn't coach any techniques with any intent of damaging anyone.  Our TE cut block got a lot of attention.  People didn't know the rules.  They automatically thought any block below the waist was illegal -- admittedly when I first start coaching, I thought this also.  I must have sounded like a moron.

 

/rant off.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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gumby_in_co
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September 22, 2020 11:53 am  

@prodigy

You are right on. When you are physical, a certain (often undeserved) reputation follows. I did a slide deck on the "Pillars of Mojo" and one of them is that you must ALWAYS toe the line when it comes to rules. No shortcuts, no "everybody does it", no "this is how you get away with it", no "I disagree with this rule so I will ignore it". If you agree to coach, you agree to follow the rules as they are written. ALL of them.

Even then, you will be accused of being a cheater.

I want our team to be the one everyone hates to play. If your opponent is all smiles in the post game handshake line, telling you how much fun it is to play you . . . you're doing it wrong.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Prodigy
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September 22, 2020 12:54 pm  

@gumby_in_co

did you ever read that book Michael recommended a few years ago? "Everything your coach never told you because you're a girl" -- Phenomenal book...easily one of the top 3 books I've read on coaching, aggression, dominance, team, etc.

 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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gumby_in_co
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September 22, 2020 1:46 pm  

@prodigy

Have not. Just ordered it from Amazon.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Prodigy
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September 22, 2020 2:36 pm  

@gumby_in_co it will make you smile.  Definitely a worthwhile read.  I recall tearing through it and just thinking how fantastic it was...I think one of my most favorite stories in the book was the coach was talking about his time as a player.  I think that he played professionally and during one game, there was a British dude who just kicked the crap out of him, trash talked him the entire game and got under his skin.  The British guy / team won.  When the game was over the author was really upset, mad about losing, thought the British guy was a complete butthole.  One of his teammates asks if he shook his hand after the game...author says "no, I didn't why would I want to shake his hand?  the guy is a total butthole."

Teammate says...everything you're feeling...you owe to that guy.

That's a deep deep thought for me.  There's so many branches off of that idea that relate to being human, feeling, losing, reflecting, improving, sportsmanship, respect.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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