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How do your plans change based on personnel?  

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Coach Kyle
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February 27, 2020 6:55 pm  

What do you do and how do you change your plans when your top talent is wholly one of these four personnel groupings? 

1. Small and Fast: You have a reasonable amount of speed, but they're not going to be breaking tackles, and certainly not going to drag anyone

2. Big and slow: These guys are powerful but not fast. They wont get to the edge quickly or make someone miss in space, but they're going to run forward.

3. Big and fast: Obviously the best. They're the studs that take you to the super bowl all on their own and make mediocre coaches think they're geniuses.

4. Small and slow: These guys are the worst in terms of skills and ability. Sometimes they have fighting spirit, which is cool, and it can certainly be rewarding to get these kids to preform, but they're definitely not ideal.

Are there certain things that you simply won't do? Or do you feel like your chosen schemes are fine regardless of personnel?

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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CoachDP
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February 28, 2020 1:41 am  

The scheme is fine regardless of where I've run it, or who I've run it with.  Our personnel dictates who we feature in our scheme and how we feature him.  Big, small, fast or slow made no difference to me.  When we ran the DW at EWHS, we didn't have one offensive lineman more than 195 lbs.  Our lightest starter was a 150 lb. Tackle.  And yet we had the 2nd highest scoring offense in the conference and went 7-2.  The DW is a ground and pound offense, yet we didn't have prototypical ground and pound type of offensive linemen. 

When I was the head coach at GHHS we operated from the Spread.  We didn't have a QB, so we moved a Wide-Out to QB and played ball-control.  We went 8-1 and averaged 31 ppg.

In either case, the schemes were already set.  Personnel didn't dictate what we ran.  Personnel dictated what we chose to feature.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
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February 28, 2020 8:24 am  
Posted by: @coach-kyle

What do you do and how do you change your plans when your top talent is wholly one of these four personnel groupings? 

1. Small and Fast: You have a reasonable amount of speed, but they're not going to be breaking tackles, and certainly not going to drag anyone

2. Big and slow: These guys are powerful but not fast. They wont get to the edge quickly or make someone miss in space, but they're going to run forward.

3. Big and fast: Obviously the best. They're the studs that take you to the super bowl all on their own and make mediocre coaches think they're geniuses.

4. Small and slow: These guys are the worst in terms of skills and ability. Sometimes they have fighting spirit, which is cool, and it can certainly be rewarding to get these kids to preform, but they're definitely not ideal.

3 and 4 provide no reason to change almost anything.  In fact, 3 is the same as 4, just that 3 is better.  The only detail I might change is to play a slow-down game in the case of 4, and a speed-up game in the case of 3.  However, if case 4 is so bad we're getting slaughtered, then no reason to slow down, might as well let them play all they can.

Only 1 and 2 give any reason to change anything else.


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chucknduck
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February 28, 2020 5:47 pm  

Do you mean within your roster? The assistant coaches never agree with how I use the roster. You meet with these guys prior to the season and all preseason and all they talk about is the best players. Never about the least talented players. They think great coaching is finding the best 11. Everyone else is a MPP.

The longer I coach, the more sensitive I get to every player's needs. I don't care so much about what the team can do with the best players on the field. I'll fill in the best guys (big and/or fast) on defense and see what we have left to make an offense. The best lineman will play nose, but we will use some big and slow guys at D tackle. Not on o line. Offensively, I'll have a spread package for the best skill guys in the game plan. But the starting offense is going to be guys that are not starting on D. More than likely we will be in a two tight end set. Slow and small guys play offense at X and Z.

To me, the o line is the key. I want coachable guys that are decent athletes. I try to coach o line every year and try to keep them off defense as much as possible. I want them getting offensive reps every single practice. If they can execute, then we can run the ball and keep those small/slow wrs on the field. We can also get those small/slow guys open with boot passes.

Third and long or two minute offense, best guys come in.

I usually rotate two or three rbs that are usually full time lbers or safeties.

I did not even know what the minimum play count was last season till the sixth game, I just kept rotating guys in the entire game. The coaches would inform me when they reached the minimum and ask if I still wanted that kid in. I'd say yea, let's keep rotating them in.

The only people that can complain are the most talented kid's parents because their son is being underutilized perhaps. But what can they say if their son is playing the entire game on defense and has smaller role on offense? They don't have a leg to stand on, the kid might ask to get the ball more, but the parents have not been too greedy with me yet.

That may not have been what you were asking but it is what I think about during the offseason. How can I involve every kid on the roster? Basically, I try to get all of that stuff squared away and then worry about how the team will win. If you worry about winning first, the bottom half of the roster becomes a nuisance to the coaches on game day. That type of coaching will put your entire program on life support now a days.


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Coach Kyle
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February 28, 2020 8:13 pm  

@chucknduck

Nope. I meant your best players. If you don't do anything differently based on personnel is there a reason?

 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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Coach Kyle
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February 28, 2020 8:14 pm  

@bob-goodman

Well what would you change?

 

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Coach Kyle
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February 28, 2020 8:14 pm  

@coachdp

In the double wing, what did you do differently to feature different personnel?

 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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terrypjohnson
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February 28, 2020 8:31 pm  

This is a great discussion.

My take is that you can run the same scheme, you just adjust it to meet the strengths of your players.

For example, in my first season, I had plenty of speed. I ran the Single Wing and ran Power and Sweep all day long. We went 5-2 and moved the sticks consistently in every game.

This year was much different. Our best running back broke his hand in game two and I had zero speed behind him. We ran mostly inside traps, wedge, and an occasional power play. We didn't have as much success as I would have liked, which is why I'm adding the Double Wing (both under center and shotgun) to my arsenal this fall. If I had that system in place last year, I could have used more misdirection, which I think would have put more stress on the defense.

I look forward to reading everyone else's takes.

Coach Terry


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Coyote
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February 28, 2020 9:47 pm  

What do you do and how do you change your plans when your top talent is wholly one of these four personnel groupings? 

Great question, looking forward to reading the various answers... 

I agree with Dave & Terry:  "Our personnel dictates who we feature in our scheme and how we feature him"   and  "you just adjust it to meet the strengths of your players"   That's the start with any of the various groups listed. I'm still running Wing T with each of these scenarios... 

Assuming we're talking the whole roster of the type... 

Small and Fast: You have a reasonable amount of speed, but they're not going to be breaking tackles, and certainly not going to drag anyone

Depends a lot on the age group and talents of the kids.  Within our Wing T ….   If H.S. team I’d probably lean more on the option, use more Red/ Blue formation, or even double slot, some unbalanced line, Likely be more a Buck than a Belly emphasis, we’d had great success w/ smallish, quick FB’s hitting the trap in the past.  Jet and Rocket definitely.  Lots of counter action -  If you're fast, the LB’s gotta read and react fast, too, which could open things up nicely.

My level (3-4th grade) Definitely more red / blue formation, w/ some Nasty alignment putting the SE to the Wing side and occasionally playing him tight (1x1 off the WB on the Line) presents an unbalanced line, and though the TE is covered puts two fast receivers tight (not a lot of shoulder mounted Howitzer’s at my level, looking for shorter rub routes)  & presents some issues for the D to match up.  Jet and/or Rocket.  Probably more Buck than Belly, w/ lots of counters.

Big and slow: These guys are powerful but not fast. They wont get to the edge quickly or make someone miss in space, but they're going to run forward.

I'm thinking Smash-mouth, maybe toss some full-house  “Power T” action in there, Lot of unbalanced line.  Lotsa Belly.  Try to get some big plays off waggle and waggle passes.  Put a premium on time of possession.  Option might be best way to attack the perimeter.  Tendency is to think Option is speed based, but a well run option attack can really open up the perimeter - even if a Big Play, only means 15 yds.

Big and fast: Obviously the best. They're the studs that take you to the super bowl all on their own and make mediocre coaches think they're geniuses.

 Even mix Buck / Belly maybe a slight bit more Down and Down option than the other two.  Probably air it out more, as well, esp. at the HS level, where their parents are thinking college ball.  

Small and slow: These guys are the worst in terms of skills and ability. Sometimes they have fighting spirit, which is cool, and it can certainly be rewarding to get these kids to preform, but they're definitely not ideal.

 Precision and Execution have to make up for size and lack of speed, always important, but coming back from mistakes is going to be a lot tougher.    Might think more in terms of multiple formations and motions to force the D to think more and react less. but mostly find what they do best, and do it a lot - be sure to have a counter off whatever they do well.  I’d definitely try to use up the clock, as small and slow really makes playing D a challenge.  If we’ve got the ball, you can’t score.

Hope this helps,

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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CoachDP
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February 28, 2020 9:57 pm  
Posted by: @coach-kyle

@coachdp

In the double wing, what did you do differently to feature different personnel?

 

If we have good receivers, we throw the ball more.  If we have fast runners, we run more misdirection.  If we have slower power backs, we run more shallow Toss.  If we have faster power backs, we run more deep Toss.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
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February 29, 2020 1:14 am  
Posted by: @coach-kyle

@bob-goodman

Well what would you change?

Tell me what I'm starting with, and then I'll tell you what I'd change!  I haven't given extensive thought to this question, but I just ruled out a couple things as mattering.

On offense there'd be opportunities; on defense, challenges.


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Bob Goodman
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February 29, 2020 2:09 am  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

This is a great discussion.

My take is that you can run the same scheme, you just adjust it to meet the strengths of your players.

For example, in my first season, I had plenty of speed. I ran the Single Wing and ran Power and Sweep all day long. We went 5-2 and moved the sticks consistently in every game.

This year was much different. Our best running back broke his hand in game two and I had zero speed behind him. We ran mostly inside traps, wedge, and an occasional power play. We didn't have as much success as I would have liked, which is why I'm adding the Double Wing (both under center and shotgun) to my arsenal this fall. If I had that system in place last year, I could have used more misdirection, which I think would have put more stress on the defense.

I look forward to reading everyone else's takes.

I can give an example of that better than I could about the strong-vs.-fast example.

Many of you are familiar with my promotion of sidesaddle T in youth football.  However, if I had as much practice time as the team I'm coaching with now, and especially with players with quarterbacking experience in wing T, then instead of sidesaddle I'd run the offense Sigourney-Keota style, with snaps going thru the QB's legs.  I'd sacrifice a little of the rapid exchange on the fly/jet series that you get with the QB sidesaddle, but gain even more overall in the deception from having the QB do a spin.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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March 15, 2020 12:45 pm  

One nice thing about zone,speed  helps but not necessary. I just need a strong and capable runner.  If I have speed and no girth nothing really changes might pass more to take advantage , maybe. 

 

Don't over think your personel, play your game. 

 

 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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