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Is Flexibility an Issue with a 3 Point Stance?

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J. Potter (seabass)
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A few weeks ago the in-coming 9th grader's (current 8th grader's) were added to our S/C program as we come into spring ball this month. They haven't been in our weight room long enough to learn the hip hinge but I have to teach them how to get into our stance. I found a way to fix it REALLY fast using a rope or big band. If someone could teach me how to post pics or videos I will share it. 


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co 

The stance of the LG is NOT good. As stance shouldn't resemble a squat...it should look more like a deadlift. The center in that frame is in a perfect stance!

Agree. This kid was not ours in the Fall seasons, but played for us in the Spring. He always wanted to be in a 3 point stance, but as Mahonz pointed out, he would have to hold his stance for up to 20 seconds before we snap the ball. So we insisted on a 2 point. As long as he was making his blocks, I didn't micromanage him. He got bull rushed a bit on the first play and that probably had a lot to do with his stance.  However, he was always quick to adjust and make it work. He was also the kid who would push his splits to the point of Mahonz yelling at me. The only time I corrected him on his splits was the day he decided to take a 12 foot split. I didn't have a problem with it, but Mahonz did. In fact, his 2 tech moved right out with him. Our QB recognized that and ran the ball right up the A gap (they had permission to do this if they saw it open) and got an easy 7 yards.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
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Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co 

The stance of the LG is NOT good. As stance shouldn't resemble a squat...it should look more like a deadlift. The center in that frame is in a perfect stance!

And why I posted this film. We all want our OLM aligned in a perfect row perfect stance. I used to be that anal. Then I realized I had 100 other things more important to worry about and came to an agreement with myself. 

Chasing perfection is dumb. 

I remember coaching smurfs about 20 years ago. I'd spend all this time working on my most excellent 3 point stance...then another ridiculous amount of time getting 7 of them to line up legally every rep. Then we'd get into the games and my OL looked like a group of drunken sailors. So...let them be drunken sailors as long as they are legal and move on. 

The even heel 2 point stance fixed all that in no time. Line up....get comfortable...get your heels even....load the guns....splatter someone. What you are seeing here is 5 OLM with 5 unique stances that works for them individually. This was the 5th or 6th season working with that group and all they did was win. Why? We decided to focus on the important things after giving up on chasing perfect stances and the like. Let the HS coaches do that. 😎 😎 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co 

The stance of the LG is NOT good. As stance shouldn't resemble a squat...it should look more like a deadlift. The center in that frame is in a perfect stance!

Agree. This kid was not ours in the Fall seasons, but played for us in the Spring. He always wanted to be in a 3 point stance, but as Mahonz pointed out, he would have to hold his stance for up to 20 seconds before we snap the ball. So we insisted on a 2 point. As long as he was making his blocks, I didn't micromanage him. He got bull rushed a bit on the first play and that probably had a lot to do with his stance.  However, he was always quick to adjust and make it work. He was also the kid who would push his splits to the point of Mahonz yelling at me. The only time I corrected him on his splits was the day he decided to take a 12 foot split. I didn't have a problem with it, but Mahonz did. In fact, his 2 tech moved right out with him. Our QB recognized that and ran the ball right up the A gap (they had permission to do this if they saw it open) and got an easy 7 yards.

LOL

I remember Brian getting a bit butt hurt over Aarons DL stance the year before he started coaching with us. 4 point.....high butt....facemask almost touching dirt. Aaron struggled with his stances when he was really young. He graduated into this odd reverse frogger stance. We wouldn't allow DL to use the 2 point at this time. He was a real force playing DL so we let it ride. Plus a few NFL DLM kinda do the same thing....but it looks uncomfortable too me. 

Whatever works and Max certainly tested us on this. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Prodigy
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@mahonz

Chasing perfection isn’t dumb at all in my opinion.  You’re probably not going to be very effective coming out of a three point if it’s not a strong stance to begin with.  

Accepting, settling, ignoring, figuring “good enough” is the pathway to complacency and once I realized that and continued to seek improvement myself and for my players, we rose to new heights…but to each their own…

and if you were specifically saying spending a bunch of time on a three point is stupid…i agree.  It’s one of many different stances that can be used but any one that you choose needs to be sound before we move to the first steps and the block and the drive and the angle and so on.  

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @mahonz

Chasing perfection is dumb. 

I remember coaching smurfs about 20 years ago. I'd spend all this time working on my most excellent 3 point stance...then another ridiculous amount of time getting 7 of them to line up legally every rep. Then we'd get into the games and my OL looked like a group of drunken sailors.

Chasing perfection isn't dumb when you know what to chase.  And spending any time on perfecting the 3-point stance is pointless.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
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Posted by: @prodigy

@mahonz

Chasing perfection isn’t dumb at all in my opinion.  You’re probably not going to be very effective coming out of a three point if it’s not a strong stance to begin with.  

Accepting, settling, ignoring, figuring “good enough” is the pathway to complacency and once I realized that and continued to seek improvement myself and for my players, we rose to new heights…but to each their own…

and if you were specifically saying spending a bunch of time on a three point is stupid…i agree.  It’s one of many different stances that can be used but any one that you choose needs to be sound before we move to the first steps and the block and the drive and the angle and so on.  

Yes Im talking stance. But there are a few other things like teaching a layered handoff saving tons of time over which elbow is up for which play. The end over end snap. Stuff like that. Stop chasing perfection on things that do not require the player to be perfect. 

Football is a constant game of failures amplified by the young mind. Accept that and you will be a much happier coach. 😊

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @mahonz

Chasing perfection is dumb. 

I remember coaching smurfs about 20 years ago. I'd spend all this time working on my most excellent 3 point stance...then another ridiculous amount of time getting 7 of them to line up legally every rep. Then we'd get into the games and my OL looked like a group of drunken sailors.

Chasing perfection isn't dumb when you know what to chase.  And spending any time on perfecting the 3-point stance is pointless.

--Dave

Agreed. Took me awhile to figure this out. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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I don’t really care if a player is in a 3 pint stance or 2-point stance…they aren’t that different. However, there are certain positions the body can be explosive from and other’s that aren’t as explosive. 

I’m an O-line coach…that’s what I got hired to do. If my guys look like shit in their most basic starting position, I will likely get fired. I don’t expect perfect but we have to be effective. 

if you know what you’re doing it doesn’t take much time😉


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @seabass I’m an O-line coach…that’s what I got hired to do. If my guys look like shit in their most basic starting position, I will likely get fired. I don’t expect perfect but we have to be effective. 

if you know what you’re doing it doesn’t take much time😉

True enough, Josh.  My remarks to Mike were in regards to the youth football situation where a primary focus is spent on stance when the real issue is that the players aren't blocking well.  Yesterday, I spent an hour on the phone with a youth coach from Michigan who wanted to know if 10-year-olds could pull.  After going through our process, I think he realized that the ability to pull wasn't the issue, as much as their ability to block consistently, as well as playing with urgency and physicality.  I told him that was another different phone call altogether.  

To your point, whether I was coaching O-Line or RBs at high school, if they didn't "look" good doing what they were asked, it would have been my rear end on the line.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
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Posted by: @seabass

if you know what you’re doing it doesn’t take much time😉

LOL...said no one ever. Im talking 8 year olds. Your talking 18 year olds. And I agree....at your level the finer points are critical. At the smurfie level getting them all pointed towards the proper goal for 4 quarters is critical. 😊 The 2 point fixes a ton of issues at that level. It truly does. Then you can work with them over time and progress to whatever you want...in less time. For me...staying with the 2 point made more sense because of the Check With Me aspects that I always liked.  No real lower body strength being the true enemy while you have them in the weight room day one.  

When we went Mega splits with the 2 point and the end over end snap I had a nice discovery with the younger kids....3rd, 4th and 5th grade seasons. All OLM could play any of the 5 positions without any real practice time. So I could play certain talents at a particular position per a scouting report and shuffle the deck week to week. That tuned into a pretty powerful tool since youth teams typically have very little depth. In the past it was less flexible. Playing the ROT and LG seemed to melt brains. Not sure why but just my observation. If I had to guess the 3 point power stance made them less ambidextrous. Still as the kids got older they pretty much dialed into a particular position for the season. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@mahonz 

Fair enough! There is definitely an age that has to be considered into the equation and list of priorities. I guess I was under the assumption we were talking more about the age group that was representative of the clip you showed. Those kid's are certainly old enough and capable of being in a good position. I was attempting to help in that regard. 

I still have my hand in the 6-8th grade levels here where I'm at now. This winter has been really good for me because one of the 3 indi sessions I run everyday, one is comprised of middle school kid's. I will have junior's/ senior's for 20 minutes then turn around and have MS kid's in the next...20-30 of those dude's. 


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