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Coach E
(@coache)
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I agree that it would be person-specific. I've seen a lot of extreme comparisons. What about the kid that is big AND athletic, not just fat and slow, going up against kids 30-40 pounds lighter. I'm not advocating either way. I do agree that the biggest problem we looked at is whether it's good for a kid who might be a back playing the line on a weight limited team.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.- Marcus Aurelius


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patriotsfatboy1
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I agree that it would be person-specific. I've seen a lot of extreme comparisons. What about the kid that is big AND athletic, not just fat and slow, going up against kids 30-40 pounds lighter. I'm not advocating either way. I do agree that the biggest problem we looked at is whether it's good for a kid who might be a back playing the line on a weight limited team.

Those other kids who are 30-40 pounds lighter can still take him down. We played against kids who were 200 pounds and fast running the ball as 7th graders.  Man-children with muscle.  We had 90 pound OLB's taking them down by tackling low. 

I think the bigger problem is when you have mountain man tossing around smaller backs like rag dolls.  That happens and is not addressed with having stripers.  That is when you have to rely on team concept to block. 

There is no perfect situation, but it is not like HS teams have some sort of artificial rule against size.  Might as well get used to it as you are not going to have kids who are all the same size all the time. 


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jrk5150
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Except in HS, MOST kids are into or through puberty, and are what they are.  And if they are too small, they don't play.  You don't have MPR's.

You also have three levels you can play kids at in HS.  That ridiculous stud may play JV or Varsity as a freshman, so in essence he IS playing up even in HS. And those lesser players can play "down" on JV.

So while I tend to think the way you do, it's not completely accurate. About the only place you are REALLY "stuck" is that rare kid in 8th grade, where he pretty much HAS to play with his age group.

And even then, in some areas of the country you can play 8th grade kids in HS.  Not sure about football, but you see it here and there in basketball.


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PSLCOACHROB
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Except in HS, MOST kids are into or through puberty, and are what they are.  And if they are too small, they don't play.  You don't have MPR's.

You also have three levels you can play kids at in HS.  That ridiculous stud may play JV or Varsity as a freshman, so in essence he IS playing up even in HS. And those lesser players can play "down" on JV.

So while I tend to think the way you do, it's not completely accurate. About the only place you are REALLY "stuck" is that rare kid in 8th grade, where he pretty much HAS to play with his age group.

And even then, in some areas of the country you can play 8th grade kids in HS.  Not sure about football, but you see it here and there in basketball.

8th graders can play hs in Florida I believe.


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CoachJR267
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A lot of orgs in this area (New England) are moving over to AYF due to the Pop Warner weight restrictions, not hard to see why Pop Warner is trying to do something.

Unfortunately this type of take on it is not uncommon, and while I understand it, there's no real data to back it up. And no, it's really not common sense (which is the response I get when I make the argument to remove weight limits) when there are hundreds of coaches on here telling you they do it and have no issues. Whatever data exists would actually say your 60 lb 9 year old is better off on the field with a 130 lb 9 year old than a 95 lb 11 year old.  The 130 lb 9 year old most likely can't move well, and is pretty rare.  In Pop Warner, every Jr. Pee Wee game has multiple 95 lb 11's playing, and that's where your kid would be playing.

Or how about, if you think your kid is too small to play football against his classmates (and that's who those big kids are, his classmates), he shouldn't be playing football. We're bending over  backwards for these small kids, meanwhile in Pop Warner we're forcing a 116 lb 9 year old to play against 12's that are 110 lbs. Yeah, that makes perfect sense... ::)

Sorry I'm late to the party but I have to take exception to some of this. In the other posters example 60lb 9 year old, he can play on Mighty Mites. I don't even think he would make minimum weight for Jr. Pee Wee. So he's be one of the older kids on his team where the max weight is 100lbs in PW. As for the 116lb 9 year old. He only needs to lose 6lbs to make JPW rather than move up to Pee Wee. I had a 10 year old who was 136lbs this past season. He was heavy and had weight to lose. He had 6 weeks to lose 6lbs and we could have rostered him on Pee Wee. His parents didn't do anything to help him and wanted us to put him on Jr. Midgets. We let him practice for one day against some of our 12 year olds who were new players. He could not protect himself and as such we refused to put him on that team. We know that from Jr. Pee Wee to Jr. Midgets the teams are going to be full of older lighters. As such we put our 9 year olds on Mighty Mites, our 10's on Jr. Pee Wee, our 11's on Pee Wee and our 12's on Jr. Midget. I agree that age based might actually be the way to go. But whatever system is set up there is going to be a subset of people who wont fit the matrix or will be unhappy with it.

To do what ought to be done but would not have been done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty.


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coachdoug
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Yes they are and its gaining steam here in CT. Your write on with pilot matrix also.

I hadn't heard that, but that sounds great - I hope it gets adopted.

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jrk5150
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Sorry I'm late to the party but I have to take exception to some of this. In the other posters example 60lb 9 year old, he can play on Mighty Mites. I don't even think he would make minimum weight for Jr. Pee Wee. So he's be one of the older kids on his team where the max weight is 100lbs in PW. As for the 116lb 9 year old. He only needs to lose 6lbs to make JPW rather than move up to Pee Wee. I had a 10 year old who was 136lbs this past season. He was heavy and had weight to lose. He had 6 weeks to lose 6lbs and we could have rostered him on Pee Wee. His parents didn't do anything to help him and wanted us to put him on Jr. Midgets. We let him practice for one day against some of our 12 year olds who were new players. He could not protect himself and as such we refused to put him on that team. We know that from Jr. Pee Wee to Jr. Midgets the teams are going to be full of older lighters. As such we put our 9 year olds on Mighty Mites, our 10's on Jr. Pee Wee, our 11's on Pee Wee and our 12's on Jr. Midget. I agree that age based might actually be the way to go. But whatever system is set up there is going to be a subset of people who wont fit the matrix or will be unhappy with it.

So you stack with the O/L's - which makes my point.  The heavier kids are screwed in that system. And yeah, we had a kid lose over 10 lbs to make Jr. Pee Wee weight, but he was fat and had it to lose.  And we've had younger kids not lose the weight.  The whole point is that kids should play with their own age group, with the only O/L being a BIG weight difference.  I like it set at the min weight for the age group, seems to make sense to me. You can only play down if you're literally too light to play with your age.

And just to be clear, and I didn't want to get that specific, but yeah, at 60 lbs a 9 would be mitey mite in our conference.  But at 65 lbs, if he'd played before, he'd be a Jr. Pee Wee by rule.  We have a conference rule that only 1st year 9's can play mitey mite. So you could have a 65 lb 9 year old who just turned 9 on July 31 up against a 95 lb kid who turned 12 on August 1.  Or a 115 lb kid who turned 8 on July 31 up against that same 95 lb kid. 20 lbs vs. 4 year age difference.  That's just STUPID. Of course, MOST of the time you don't have a 4 year gap, but we absolutely have had 8 year old kids on Jr. Pee Wee up against 11 year old kids who were only 20 lbs lighter. Actually, one year we did have a kid turn 12 on August 3, and we had an 8 year old heavy kid on the team. The 12 wasn't THAT good, so it wasn't horrible, but it was pretty stupid when it comes down to it.


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Prodigy
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He only needs to lose 6lbs to make JPW rather than move up to Pee Wee.

It's my opinion that this is a wee bit ridiculous, to expect a little kid to lose weight to play.  When I was a little kid I wasn't able to play Pop Warner, which was the only show in town because I was too big and I wasn't old enough to play HS ball.  It wasn't until I was in HS that I started wrestling, running track, lifting and playing football that I really leaned out and came into my own.

When my oldest son was 9 or 10 I put him on a low carb diet to shed water weight before the season started so that he wouldn't have to play up.  I've heard about local coaches sweating kids down and sending kids that were too light into weigh-ins with weights in their pockets.  If it's happening here, it's happening other places...despite what the rule book says.

I'm all for youth football, I am, whether it's Pop Warner, AYF or non-national / local play.  I think the Pop Warner format is great for some kids and I'm happy to see kids play ball.  The sad thing is when kids can't play ball because they are too heavy.

As for the safety factor, I'd be interested to hear who really believes that age+weight is really safer than age based ball...especially with various studies out that clearly state that age is the biggest factor for injuries.  The older the kids are playing, the higher the risk.  To say a group of 7 year olds are at less of a risk than a group of 9 year old kids for injuries.  Then what happens with you put a 9 or a 10-year old "older lighter" against a 7 year old?  When I coached with Pop Warner, we always WANTED the older-lighter kids.  Most coaches would kill for a group of kids that are older rather than heavier younger kids.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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jrk5150
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I personally think the weights for Pop Warner are too low, yet on here I routinely see weights for local leagues set even lower.  It's just insane. WTF are you people doing?!?  You're pushing out the kids who WILL play at a higher level for kids who may very well be too small to play as they get older anyway.  I would imagine it's largely because those who made and maintain the rules had/have smaller kids playing, and they just can't see beyond their own narrow little circumstances.

My son is not all that big, he was an average-sized HS lineman.  Yet he always had to lose weight to play Pop Warner - usually 5-8 lbs.  He did it just by eating better, so it was never an issue, but it showed me those weights are WAY off. To force him to play up would have been ludicrous and unwarranted.

I'm honestly sick of scared ignorant parents whining and forcing everything to be all f*cked up to accommodate their precious little undersized snowflake.  And shocked that some of those parents are coaches ON HERE. Go play and coach f*cking soccer.


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patriotsfatboy1
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I personally think the weights for Pop Warner are too low, yet on here I routinely see weights for local leagues set even lower.  It's just insane. WTF are you people doing?!?  You're pushing out the kids who WILL play at a higher level for kids who may very well be too small to play as they get older anyway.  I would imagine it's largely because those who made and maintain the rules had/have smaller kids playing, and they just can't see beyond their own narrow little circumstances.

My son is not all that big, he was an average-sized HS lineman.  Yet he always had to lose weight to play Pop Warner - usually 5-8 lbs.  He did it just by eating better, so it was never an issue, but it showed me those weights are WAY off. To force him to play up would have been ludicrous and unwarranted.

I'm honestly sick of scared ignorant parents whining and forcing everything to be all f*cked up to accommodate their precious little undersized snowflake.  And shocked that some of those parents are coaches ON HERE. Go play and coach f*cking soccer.

My undersized snowflake wanted to play football and he plays unlimited.  It has actually been good for him.  He is just getting to 100 pounds right now as a 7th grader and he is a young 7th grader (still only 12).  He has a lot more confidence in his physical abilities because of things that he has been capable of doing in football.  There are much bigger kids that he has to take down.  Some of them are twice his weight, but that does not bother him.  Trying to have everyone be the same size for sports just seems like it is missing out on some of the key lessons to be learned.


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jrk5150
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Exactly. Thank you.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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What is ruining youth football is crappy coaching and crappy boards running orgs. I see locally a bunch of kids who want to play ball but most of the good coaches have been run off and the kids and parents are left to choose the best of a total shit show. Too many of these kids are having bad experiences, regardless of whether the league is weighted or not, and deciding to do other things with their time. I have talked to parents here that flat out are flabbergasted(I know, I just wrote flabbergasted) at the level of bs that they have to deal with every single local league. I can't speak for what goes on at the leagues I haven't coached in but it seemed that it was all the same theme, poor coaching and a board with ulterior motives. So, please, don't blame the drop in numbers on a silly rule here or there, the darn aDULTS are ruining youth football. It is that simple. Don't pass go, don't collect two hundred dollars. Bad adults = bad youth sports.


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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imho, what is absolutely ruining youth sports is the "Be All, End All, Desire To WIN Regardless of cost!

Your 5-14 year old kid ain't shit unless they have won multiple Championships!
Your Coaches are useless without 10 Championships on their resume! 

Folks, I have seen far more players excel as Juniors and Seniors than I have seen Stud Freshmen on the Varsity!  WHY?  For the very same reason the kids who are studs at 4th Grade are getting caught by more kids in 8th Grade.  Its called maturity. It's called hard work, It's called Mother Nature!

More important, it's called teaching them to love the challenge and grow! 

Is unlimited weight ruining football?  HELL NO! 

Life is nothing but a challenge!  Dont care if your a Buck 10 or 250 its all about learning to outsmart, out quick, or out muscle the other guy!     
 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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CD Rams Coach M
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We switched to Age/Grade based about 8 or 9 years ago.

I love having the bigger kids play with kids their age as opposed to being forced to play up with older kids.
In a majority of the cases, size doesn't translate to domination. And it often helps build confidence in kids
who've been told they can't play because they are "too big".

The "huge, athletic" kids in youth football are few and far between. We love the age/grade based football!


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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We switched to Age/Grade based about 8 or 9 years ago.

I love having the bigger kids play with kids their age as opposed to being forced to play up with older kids.
In a majority of the cases, size doesn't translate to domination. And it often helps build confidence in kids
who've been told they can't play because they are "too big".

The "huge, athletic" kids in youth football are few and far between. We love the age/grade based football!

Are you guys in AYF? I see that you are in the Worcester area.


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