Posted by: @festivus15

Had my first practice this morning with my team of almost all new to me 11-12 year olds.

I’m generally of the opinion that at this level, I never want to kick it deep and intentionally give the ball to the other team’s best kid in space.  However, I’ve got a 12 year old soccer player that can boot it 45 yards off the tee.  So now the risk remains of kicking deep that their best kid may break one, but if I can kick deep and away from him, that has a chance to pin them deep.  

Anyone else face this dilemma at this age?

 

 

A good problem to have. Can your soccer player put the ball where ever you need it....like in a deep hole so not catching on the fly?...or even in the endzone? 

Then you have the best of both worlds. Go for the on side and try to steal a possession or pin em deep. 

Oh and start working on FG's 

Here is one of our 8th graders making a 45 yard FG....the football lands on the warning track. 😲 

We actually had two really good kickers. 

No dilemma at all.  Have him kick it deep and OOB.  Their offense takes it at the 35.  I'm okay with that.  They could make you kick it over, but they'll (rarely) only do that if they think you were kicking it OOB intentionally.  Hmmm....

--Dave

@mahonz 

that’s awesome for 8th grade.  I’ll definitely have him working on Fg daily. 

Posted by: @coachdp

No dilemma at all.  Have him kick it deep and OOB.  Their offense takes it at the 35.  I'm okay with that.  They could make you kick it over, but they'll (rarely) only do that if they think you were kicking it OOB intentionally.  Hmmm....

--Dave

I like this.  A lot.  I’ll plan on working with him on this and onside.  And maybe kicking to a hole if we see one deeper.  

Onside every time have multiple versions of inside kicks. We have standard, slow ball, high ball, big bounce, and bum rush.  Training the kicker is the hard part. If you can't teach well, just havem kick it as high as possible at 10-15 yards and lettem have at it. 

Ask Troy what he thinks about kicking deep … ever.

Have a signal from the bench to always give the other team what they "ask for" by formation and personnel.

Don't know what the stats are now-a-days, but at one of the H.S. clinics I went to back in the 90's we were told that in H.S. 37% of the on-sides kicks were successful.   I believe that to be higher at the lower levels.   Yesterday we kicked off 6 times and recovered 2.  One of those did not go 10 yds, so if you don't count that one, we recovered 40% [if my math is right].   In any case, they didn't get a return.

I think it was in a book on Defense, they recommended tee up on the hash, and kick aiming at the opposite side 35 yd line.  On the ground and ugly.  Close enough for a chance at the recovery, but if it goes out of bounds, you're at the 35 anyway.  

We weren't very good at recovering onside kicks last year. Maybe 10%. But I'll still continue to kick onside because the single most important stat to me is that the number of TDs we gave up on kick returns was zero. We returned about 90% of kicks to us to at least midfield and scored at least 5 TDs. Offenses must have 2 capabilities to capitalize on mid-field position: 1) the ability to sustain a 50-yard drive b) the ability to kick a field goal. Very few of my opponents have the first capability. None have the second.

In our 2nd round playoff game, I kicked deep twice. We recovered the first one on the 1 yard line. Easy TD. They recovered the second on the one line. Safety. I kicked the first deep because they pulled all 11 players up to the front line (???). I kicked the second one deep out of pity.  However, they were missing a key player that day and there is NO way I ever kick deep to that kid.

So I see very little advantage in playing the field position game in my league. 

@coyote I'll see if I can find Kevin Kelley's numbers on it. I wanted to say the odds said it was in your favor to onside kick every time.

20 minutes later, I found it

https://www.the33rdteam.com/breakdowns/the-analytics-behind-one-coachs-very-aggressive-tactics/

Posted by: @terrypjohnson

Kevin Kelley's numbers on it

Intriguing stuff...  thanx 

we were a 99% onsides team.  Sure getting it deep and pinning them down would have been a better tactic if I was confident that we could always hold their offense down or force a rue over but I really like the idea of taking every single opportunity we had to take the ball from our opponent.  We might only get one out of every few kicks but we never had anyone run back a deep kick for a touchdown or really make a move with a kick return.   They were all just trying to cover the ball because they knew we were coming for it 

and that is another factor here.  A team that threatens to take the ball on kickoff is an entirely different thing from a team that is going to kick it deep or out of bounds.  There’s a certain mental aspect to a team that seems to play by different rules.  The general expectation is you’re going to get a decent kickoff and the chance to return.  It’s fairly rare for a pro team to onsides.  So on some level you’re breaking the mold and you may actually run into some teams and players that don’t understand what’s going on when you purposely kick the ball 10 yards and charge the entire team towards it 

I always look for a kicker in try outs the first week.  It's always a center, a mike, and a kicker. 

Our kind set is always "if you want the ball, you better take it from us".  Having kids being aggressive is always easier than them not. I only have a few kids who need to think on an insides and they're the one usually intended to get the kick. 

Pop up kicks are terrifying for the return team especially bc if they aren't coached to fair coach they're getting laid out.  If they are coached to fair catch they're not ready for us to jump for the ball prior to them getting it.