Man these refs are ...
 
Notifications

Man these refs are idiots... (SW issues)  

Page 2 / 3
  RSS

vikingdw
(@vikingdw)
Copper
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 77
September 10, 2019 10:18 pm  

I agree with Mahonz. From my angle it looked like the BB was far enough back to not break the plane of the snapper's waist, I believe that's what the ref was looking for. I've had it called on me only one time when I was coaching in Georgia probably 12 years ago and we just told the BB to scoot back a half step. No problem after that. Here's the rule...
ART. 3 . . . A back is any A player who has no part of his body breaking
the plane of an imaginary line drawn parallel to the line of scrimmage
through the waist of the nearest teammate who is legally on the line,
except for the player under the snapper, who is also considered a back.


ReplyQuote
COACH JC
(@winged)
Diamond
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 6999
September 10, 2019 10:19 pm  

The only thing I can think of is that the org might have rule against anyone other than the QB taking a snap. I mention that because the Georgia Recreation and Park Association has this rule:

"In the 7U and 8U divisions, a defensive player is not allowed to line up over the center. As a result of this rule, there will be no quarterback sneaks. The QB must be led by a running back if running up the middle. The QB may run outside the guards and there are no direct snaps to anyone other than the quarterback. The penalty for this infraction is the same as illegal formation."

I put the whole rule in there just to give some background on why it's there.

Ya, no such rules here. we’re playing real football w/ HS rules, just no kickoffs.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


ReplyQuote
Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9516
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
September 11, 2019 5:23 am  

I agree with Mahonz. From my angle it looked like the BB was far enough back to not break the plane of the snapper's waist, I believe that's what the ref was looking for. I've had it called on me only one time when I was coaching in Georgia probably 12 years ago and we just told the BB to scoot back a half step. No problem after that. Here's the rule...
ART. 3 . . . A back is any A player who has no part of his body breaking
the plane of an imaginary line drawn parallel to the line of scrimmage
through the waist of the nearest teammate who is legally on the line,
except for the player under the snapper, who is also considered a back.

Note that it's not about the snapper's waist, but that of the nearest line player.  If the blocking back's breaking the plane of the nearest OL's waist, they could say you were snapping the ball to a lineman.

They could also say it's illegal formation if he's breaking the plane of the nearest OL's waist but not that of the snapper, but maybe that was never flagged if that player didn't get the snap because there was no advantage to that positioning -- same way as they'll cut slack on WRs' positioning.


ReplyQuote
terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
Bronze
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 287
United States
Head Coach
September 11, 2019 6:07 am  

Ya, no such rules here. we’re playing real football w/ HS rules, just no kickoffs.

Except for the ones that they make up on the fly 😉

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


ReplyQuote
Dimson
(@dimson)
Diamond
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 7455
September 11, 2019 7:38 am  

Watching some scout film. One of the teams was an UBSW. The white hat is behind the offense and off to the side a bit looking VERY intently at the sniffer back.  SW team runs wedge, ref throws a flag. Turns out he was flagging them every time the sniffer got the ball.

I spoke to the coach of the team to confirm. Said they couldn’t run wedge all game. Unreal. lol

My guess is the opposing coach brought it up to the ref pre game and this led to the ref paying extra attention to it.


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22981
September 11, 2019 7:49 am  

Note that it's not about the snapper's waist, but that of the nearest line player.  If the blocking back's breaking the plane of the nearest OL's waist, they could say you were snapping the ball to a lineman.

They could also say it's illegal formation if he's breaking the plane of the nearest OL's waist but not that of the snapper, but maybe that was never flagged if that player didn't get the snap because there was no advantage to that positioning -- same way as they'll cut slack on WRs' positioning.

Thanks for the clarification.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
Wing-n-It
(@robert)
Platinum Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 3872
United States
September 11, 2019 11:37 am  

Note that it's not about the snapper's waist, but that of the nearest line player. 

Ok I know I'm just a dum youth coach but with this rule as you interpret it, it says you can have a line "Bow" back to where everyone besides the center and 2 guards are in the backfield.
I thought it ALWAYS had to do with the centers/ Snappers waist

This just doesn't make sense to a dum youth coach like myself

I never knew the rule was interpreted this way.

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


ReplyQuote
J. Potter (seabass)
(@seabass)
Gold
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1249
September 11, 2019 11:44 am  

Last week, we were repeatedly warned that our Tackles were too deep off the ball. One in particular was deeper that I wanted him to be. His helmet wasn't deeper than the G's but was deeper than the C. I always thought that the G's and T's helmet had to crease the hip of the C.


ReplyQuote
Wing-n-It
(@robert)
Platinum Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 3872
United States
September 11, 2019 11:49 am  

Last week, we were repeatedly warned that our Tackles were too deep off the ball. One in particular was deeper that I wanted him to be. His helmet wasn't deeper than the G's but was deeper than the C. I always thought that the G's and T's helmet had to crease the hip of the C.

Kinda what I was thinking

The centers waist is what constitutes who's on the line and who's in the backfield is what I have always been taught and learned. Formations start with the snapper.

Who knew I'de been teaching it wrong all these years ::) 😮

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


ReplyQuote
Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9516
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
September 11, 2019 2:43 pm  

Ok I know I'm just a dum youth coach but with this rule as you interpret it, it says you can have a line "Bow" back to where everyone besides the center and 2 guards are in the backfield.
I thought it ALWAYS had to do with the centers/ Snappers waist

This just doesn't make sense to a dum youth coach like myself

I never knew the rule was interpreted this way.

There are two separate requirements.  One is that you have no more than 4 players who are not on the line.  The other is that you have no players who aren't either in the backfield or on the line.

Whether a player is on the line depends on positioning relative to the snapper's waist.

Whether a player is in the backfield depends on positioning relative to the nearest player who's on the line, or to being the one and only one player in position to take a handed snap between the snapper's legs.


ReplyQuote
Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9516
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
September 11, 2019 2:44 pm  

Last week, we were repeatedly warned that our Tackles were too deep off the ball. One in particular was deeper that I wanted him to be. His helmet wasn't deeper than the G's but was deeper than the C. I always thought that the G's and T's helmet had to crease the hip of the C.

They do.


ReplyQuote
Wing-n-It
(@robert)
Platinum Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 3872
United States
September 11, 2019 2:52 pm  

One is that you have no more than 4 players who are not on the line.

Got it

The other is that you have no players who aren't either in the backfield or on the line.

WTF?  Read that 4 times still makes zero sense.
There is only 2 genders. Either you are on the line or not on the line. "You either with us or against us" (Pres Bush)
Sidelines? do they mean sidelines.

Whether a player is on the line depends on positioning relative to the snapper's waist.

it's not about the snapper's waist

Now I am really confused

Whether a player is in the backfield depends on positioning relative to the nearest player who's on the line, or to being the one and only one player in position to take a handed snap between the snapper's legs.

Wait, aren't you the one that does the sidesaddle? Does that go between the legs.

No wonder refs cant get this straight.

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


ReplyQuote
Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9516
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
September 11, 2019 6:00 pm  

WTF?  Read that 4 times still makes zero sense.
There is only 2 genders. Either you are on the line or not on the line. "You either with us or against us" (Pres Bush)

It's possible, but illegal at the snap, for a player who is not on the line to not be in the backfield.  Being in the backfield is not just a matter of not being on the line.  You have to not break the plane of the waist of the nearest lineman.

Wait, aren't you the one that does the sidesaddle? Does that go between the legs.

Doesn't matter which way he's facing.  If the QB sticks his hands under, he's breaking the plane of the nearest lineman's waist.  However, he's not doing so with his head.  (Actually in some cases the QB does so, but the officials cut some slack there.)  So he's not a lineman, and he wouldn't be a back, so a separate provision has to be made for him to make it legal.

Yes, the sidesaddle QB is in position to take a snap between the snapper's legs.  It doesn't necessarily go to him.  And if the snapper snapped the ball somewhere else (like slinging it to a player out to the side in the backfield), the formation's still legal.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17469
North Carolina
High School
September 11, 2019 6:13 pm  

The other is that you have no players who aren't either in the backfield or on the line.

Got it WTF?  Read that 4 times still makes zero sense.
There is only 2 genders. Either you are on the line or not on the line.

Actually, what Bob says is correct.  Players have to be either on the line of scrimmage, or in the backfield.  But there is a "nether-zone" between the LOS and backfield, that players are forbidden from lining up in.  I have experienced this with my Fullback on numerous occasions.  Because he's offset in the sniffer position, refs want me to line him up deeper in the "backfield." 

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 711
Virginia
Middle School
Only / Head Coach
September 12, 2019 2:46 am  

There is only 2 genders. Either you are on the line or not on the line.

Wait, aren't you the one that does the sidesaddle? Does that go between the legs.

The PC police gonna get you! ;D ;D


ReplyQuote
Page 2 / 3
Share: