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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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May 31, 2020 10:30 pm  

While this crazy time of riots/protests/looting unfolds in south eastern PA. One of the students on the team was caught on news camera leaving a footlocker with bags. Hope the Jordans are worth it, he won't be on the team now for the anticipated shortened season. 

 

While I agree this behavior is not condoned, would like to discuss your opinions on handeling a situation like this.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Seth54
(@seth54)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 24
May 31, 2020 10:52 pm  

I’m in the Philly burbs. It’s a strange time because I see familiar neighborhoods in chaos and friends posting on social media from these protests, but my neighborhood is totally unaffected. 

I’m not sure how’d I’d address this. A lot of teams contract with their players that they will maintain a standard of conduct for these types of off field issues. Regardless, accountability is never the wrong answer.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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June 1, 2020 8:45 am  
Posted by: @bucksweep58

While this crazy time of riots/protests/looting unfolds in south eastern PA. One of the students on the team was caught on news camera leaving a footlocker with bags. Hope the Jordans are worth it, he won't be on the team now for the anticipated shortened season. 

 

While I agree this behavior is not condoned, would like to discuss your opinions on handeling a situation like this.

Honestly you shouldn't have to deal with it. If mom and or dad are worth a chit he wont be playing football. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 1, 2020 2:35 pm  

Mahonz and I had 3 players from our Spring team involved in a burglary/vandalism at a local elementary school. They broke a lot of windows and stole something like 20 brand new iPads. Tens of thousands of dollars in damage.

The obvious response was to kick them off of our team. No one would have blamed us had we done that.

The next "feel good" response would have been to allow them to to stay on the team given certain conditions. One was a team vote. Another was some kind of punishment period.

Mike and I talked it over and decided to go in an entirely different direction. These were good kids raised by good parents who did something stupid (kids did, not the parents). One of the dads is in law enforcement. One of the kids, since he was a year older spent a few nights in jail.  We decided that these kids' worlds were falling apart. Parents, school, police, peers.  We decided that they had been punished enough and we had zero concerns that they would spread corruption among the other players. Their remorse was total and sincere.  So I pulled them aside, one by one and told them that I wasn't going to punish them or ostracize them in any way.  They would miss some playing time due to missing practice, but aside from that, clean slate with me. I also made sure they knew that I was available to listen, or help them navigate their way out of jams. Most of all, I let them know that I loved them.

Out of the 2 of the 3 managed to stay out of trouble. They'll be entering their junior year of HS. The third will be a senior and apparently will be a father soon, if he isn't one already. I don't have a single regret for handling it the way we did.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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June 1, 2020 7:39 pm  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Mahonz and I had 3 players from our Spring team involved in a burglary/vandalism at a local elementary school. They broke a lot of windows and stole something like 20 brand new iPads. Tens of thousands of dollars in damage.

The obvious response was to kick them off of our team. No one would have blamed us had we done that.

The next "feel good" response would have been to allow them to to stay on the team given certain conditions. One was a team vote. Another was some kind of punishment period.

Mike and I talked it over and decided to go in an entirely different direction. These were good kids raised by good parents who did something stupid (kids did, not the parents). One of the dads is in law enforcement. One of the kids, since he was a year older spent a few nights in jail.  We decided that these kids' worlds were falling apart. Parents, school, police, peers.  We decided that they had been punished enough and we had zero concerns that they would spread corruption among the other players. Their remorse was total and sincere.  So I pulled them aside, one by one and told them that I wasn't going to punish them or ostracize them in any way.  They would miss some playing time due to missing practice, but aside from that, clean slate with me. I also made sure they knew that I was available to listen, or help them navigate their way out of jams. Most of all, I let them know that I loved them.

Out of the 2 of the 3 managed to stay out of trouble. They'll be entering their junior year of HS. The third will be a senior and apparently will be a father soon, if he isn't one already. I don't have a single regret for handling it the way we did.

 

Yah...different deal though. If I saw them on TV looting....tough to let them continue on considering they didn't travel into a riot with the intention  just to steal. Plus if it weren't for Officer L that whole thing ends differently. I remember defaulting to his advise as you described. They paid a high price off the field. Did you know Snicker's and  Twix's little Sister died? Maybe you were the one that told me. 

 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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June 2, 2020 9:44 am  
Posted by: @bucksweep58

your opinions on handeling a situation like this.

Coach, 

The man said (paraphrasing from memory), ‘riots are the voice of the unheard’, he also said, ‘you ‘can’t drive out darkness with darkness.’

 

Of my 16 yrs coaching H.S. (Football and wrestling) 10 were in an inner-city school (HC wrestling; ass’t football) my mentor in coaching Football is black.  Most of my football players were black, as were most the coaches, the Principle and the Head of Athletics.   My wrestling team was the most integrated program in the school.   Probably the most important education of my life came from the experience. 

Among the things I was taught by older, wiser black coaches…

 ‘as a white, something may or may not be about race; for a black man, everything is about race.’ 

That reason and ‘logic are the tool which the white man keeps the black man down’, that righteous indignation is sometimes the only recourse for the black, the louder and more emotional the indignation, the more righteous the position.  [Common illustration; "We had the land and the white had the Bible, next thing we knew, we had his Bible and he had our land.]

Some of my kids were intrigued by Islam, the reason they gave, is that ‘Christianity is for women, its soft’; they go to church and see their grandma, aunts and mom, but few men, whereas ‘Islam is for men,’  it’s masculine, where ‘Jesus said, ‘turn the other cheek’, Islam says ‘if a man strikes you, you strike them back, it’s better for you and better for them’.

Among my guys who are minorities…  Some became Dr’s, Businessmen, accountants, military, educators; but others murderers, drug dealers, thieves.  I’ve had Feds come take my kids out of our football practice.  Some kids chose to get out;  some chose the street, mostly believing they couldn’t get out.  A thousand times I heard kids say to another, “You’re not going to College, you’re not white, you’re not going anywhere.” 

When we coaches had an opportunity to look into bad behavior, and if we had a say, we sought opportunities for reclamation, restitution & reconciliation if the kids were willing.    I didn’t have a lot of rules for my wrestling team, the standard response to breaking them was upto a week of ’20 minutes to Glory’.   10 minutes to glory was our standard conditioning at the end of practice.  20 minutes was “rehab” after practice.  Twice I’ve had kids say (not on the same squad) they’d go to jail before they’d go thru 20 minutes to glory.  Usually only had one kid do 20 minutes in a season, and it was enough for the whole team to get the message.

[Main Team rule:  “Be where you are supposed to be, doing what you are supposed to be doing, the way you are are supposed to be doing it, when you are supposed to doing it.  You reflect on the team; the team reflects on you.  Don’t bring shame on the team.”  ]

If one of my kids were caught on film looting, and the system didn’t take him, as coaches we’d interview him and if convinced he was sincere in his repentance, made restitution and offered personal apology,  a week of 20 minutes to glory minimum would be included in his ‘rehab’.

Hope this helps, 

This post was modified 5 months ago 4 times by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22976
June 2, 2020 10:51 am  
Posted by: @coyote
Posted by: @bucksweep58

your opinions on handeling a situation like this.

Coach, 

The man said (paraphrasing from memory), ‘riots are the voice of the unheard’, he also said, ‘you ‘can’t drive out darkness with darkness.’

 

Of my 16 yrs coaching H.S. (Football and wrestling) 10 were in an inner-city school (HC wrestling; ass’t football) my mentor in coaching Football is black.  Most of my football players were black, as were most the coaches, the Principle and the Head of Athletics.   My wrestling team was the most integrated program in the school.   Probably the most important education of my life came from the experience. 

Among the things I was taught by older, wiser black coaches…

 ‘as a white, something may or may not be about race; for a black man, everything is about race.’ 

That reason and ‘logic are the tool which the white man keeps the black man down’, that righteous indignation is sometimes the only recourse for the black, the louder and more emotional the indignation, the more righteous the position.  [Common illustration; "We had the land and the white had the Bible, next thing we knew, we had his Bible and he had our land.]

Some of my kids were intrigued by Islam, the reason they gave, is that ‘Christianity is for women, its soft’; they go to church and see their grandma, aunts and mom, but few men, whereas ‘Islam is for men,’  it’s masculine, where ‘Jesus said, ‘turn the other cheek’, Islam says ‘if a man strikes you, you strike them back, it’s better for you and better for them’.

Among my guys who are minorities…  Some became Dr’s, Businessmen, accountants, military, educators; but others murderers, drug dealers, thieves.  I’ve had Feds come take my kids out of our football practice.  Some kids chose to get out;  some chose the street, mostly believing they couldn’t get out.  A thousand times I heard kids say to another, “You’re not going to College, you’re not white, you’re not going anywhere.” 

When we coaches had an opportunity to look into bad behavior, and if we had a say, we sought opportunities for reclamation, restitution & reconciliation if the kids were willing.    I didn’t have a lot of rules for my wrestling team, the standard response to breaking them was upto a week of ’20 minutes to Glory’.   10 minutes to glory was our standard conditioning at the end of practice.  20 minutes was “rehab” after practice.  Twice I’ve had kids say (not on the same squad) they’d go to jail before they’d go thru 20 minutes to glory.  Usually only had one kid do 20 minutes and it was enough for the whole team to get the message.

[Main Team rule:  “Be where you are supposed to be, doing what you are supposed to be doing, the way you are are supposed to be doing it, when you are supposed to doing it.  You reflect on the team; the team reflects on you.  Don’t bring shame on the team.”  ]

If one of my kids were caught on film looting, and the system didn’t take him, as coaches we’d interview him and if convinced he was sincere in his repentance, made restitution and offered personal apology,  a week of 20 minutes to glory minimum would be included in his ‘rehab’.

Hope this helps, 

All excellent points but something tells me what is going on right now is different. Everything is just.....off. Its no longer about race exclusively. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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June 2, 2020 2:03 pm  
Posted by: @mahonz

All excellent points but something tells me what is going on right now is different. Everything is just.....off. Its no longer about race exclusively. 

Yes.  I knew that if this enforced people distancing were kept up long enough it would lead to unrest.  I didn't know what the trigger would be, but it could've been anything.


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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June 2, 2020 2:54 pm  
Posted by: @mahonz

something tells me what is going on right now is different

Anger seeks an outlet.  Anger over Floyd's murder, but also anger over conditions of the quarantine.    Piggy-backing on that anger others are using it as cover for criminal enterprise, some for personal agenda (my sources indicate some folk are seeking to settle personal grievance against individuals - accurate or not remains to be seen), some to advance political agenda.   Old political saw: "Never let a crisis go to waste, if there is no crisis, create one."

 

 

This post was modified 5 months ago by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 9395
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June 2, 2020 3:01 pm  

As I am only an assistant, I only get kept in the loop and not part of the decision making.  From what I gathered there is a little apprehension as does the kid get removed from a team that doesn't have a confirmed season?  If the season is confirmed later is it too late to say "you're off the team for looting in June".  

 

Be interesting to see how this shakes out. 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9504
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June 2, 2020 8:55 pm  
Posted by: @bucksweep58

As I am only an assistant, I only get kept in the loop and not part of the decision making.  From what I gathered there is a little apprehension as does the kid get removed from a team that doesn't have a confirmed season?  If the season is confirmed later is it too late to say "you're off the team for looting in June".  

 

Be interesting to see how this shakes out. 

Why would they want to delay like that?  Just to be cruel?

 


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 7 years ago
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June 3, 2020 10:44 am  

Folks:

 

Here is an example being played out in Baseball.  Astros were punished for this season and folks are complaining that thus far there is no "real punishment" as there is no Baseball.   However, its not like MLB predicted Covid. 

Looting is a Criminal Act.  Do you wait until he /she is convicted OR do you have Code of Conduct (Civil) that allows you to suspend said player.   

  

 

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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June 3, 2020 12:17 pm  
Posted by: @youth-coach

Do you wait until he /she is convicted OR do you have Code of Conduct (Civil) that allows you to suspend said player.   

We reinforced the notion that to be allowed to participate in sports is a privilege, not a right.  Break the law and face consequences, even if the legal system doesn't prosecute (it happened occasionally) there will be team consequences. 

BTW:  Coaching legend J. Robinson (Minn. Wrestling) took it on himself to administer punishment for some law-breakers on his team.   Far as he was concerned it had been dealt with, when the law and the university learned of the crimes, the athletes were removed and so was J. as coach.  

Might think twice about criminal activity you know about, but the law hasn't learned about... 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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June 4, 2020 2:25 pm  
Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @bucksweep58

As I am only an assistant, I only get kept in the loop and not part of the decision making.  From what I gathered there is a little apprehension as does the kid get removed from a team that doesn't have a confirmed season?  If the season is confirmed later is it too late to say "you're off the team for looting in June".  

 

Be interesting to see how this shakes out. 

Why would they want to delay like that?  Just to be cruel?

 

The student hasn't been notified because the header is unsure the status of the season.  

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Bob Goodman
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June 4, 2020 7:32 pm  
Posted by: @bucksweep58
Posted by: @bob-goodman
Posted by: @bucksweep58

As I am only an assistant, I only get kept in the loop and not part of the decision making.  From what I gathered there is a little apprehension as does the kid get removed from a team that doesn't have a confirmed season?  If the season is confirmed later is it too late to say "you're off the team for looting in June".  

 

Be interesting to see how this shakes out. 

Why would they want to delay like that?  Just to be cruel?

 

The student hasn't been notified because the header is unsure the status of the season.  

So what's keeping him from saying now, either, "We don't know if any of us are playing this year, but you won't," or, "We don't know if any of us are playing this year, but your misadventure isn't a consideration in your case."?  Is the HC just hoping the season's called off so he won't have to say anything about it?  Or procrastinating about the decision, because he can?  Either of those approaches is jerky.

Like John Connally when he waited to respond to Lee Oswald's request letter until after Connally was out of office as Secretary of the Navy so he could just blow him off.  And we know what happened to him.


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