Notifications
Clear all

PLAY NAMING

Page 3 / 5

CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

Until you crack the top 5 of days spent on Dumcoach, I don't think you deserve special allowances

loller!  I second that.  And I didn't know whether to be like, "Ninth?! Dag, I'm spending too much time here!" Or, "Ninth?! Dag, I'm not spending enough time here!"  😉

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

I have parents for bag holders.

Wow, really?  Ray, how does that work?  For us, you can't be on our (youth) practice field without a Pop Warner ID.  Secondly, I don't want a bag-holder administering advice.  And there's no way a dad who's on the field isn't telling a player what to do.  And since he's not a coach, I don't want my players hearing from him.  Everything we say and do is specific to the way I do things.  There's no way a bag-holding dad shows up already knowing the methodology we use.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
Silver
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 847
 

This would be the same playbook for all levels. We run the same offense from top to bottom. The reason I didn't like 1 word plays was, it dosen't work for all levels. works for the little guys or if it is only for 1 team.When you add formations, motion and different backfield action then line has to learn more plays. For example this past season we had plays with the backfield running one thing and the line blocking another. Backs running belly and the line blocking buck sweep, 2 plays 1 blocking scheme.

I wouldn't use all these plays but would think it would be easier  having consistant language when the older levels run their stuff. I guess I'm thinking more about playbook design and less team specific concepts.

You do realize that many of the hottest offenses in college football (and even the NFL) have gone to using 1 word playcalls for years to simplify and speed things up for their players, right?  So if it works for the little guys and it works for D1 and Pro football teams (including Clemson and the Chiefs as a situational thing), why wouldn't it work for your older kids?

If you all run the Wing-T and you want consistent terminology and a consistent playbook, then the old Delaware terminology already has you covered.  Find Tubby Raymond's old book as a .pdf or buy some materials on it (there are tons of them) and use that.  I'd lobby for that before I'd try to go to the whole league and say "you coaches should all use this new terminology I've come up with that I want to install for my kids!"

That Delaware terminology seems confusing at first, but it organizes things well.  Plays are a 3 digit call.  First number is the formation.  Second number is the backfield action.  Third number is the hole number--the holes are numbered 0-9 from left to right--1-5 on the left, 6-9 on the right.  Motion is mostly built in, but you can tag it on there at the beginning if you need to.  "Funky" formation tags are tagged on at the beginning, so you can run "Loose 100" formation."  No coach needs to install all of that in any given year--just take what you need and leave the rest out.  BOOM!  DONE!

If you want to make it easier on the OL to remember, just tag the blocking scheme after the play call ((Sweep, Trap, Waggle, O, Counter, Wedge, and XB take care of most of it).  If you want to get away from numbers altogether, name the formations, name the backfield actions (Buck, Belly, Down, Jet, Power, and maybe Rocket will be the biggies).  So you could just call "Right Buck Sweep," "Left Belly Sweep," etc. and be in business.  It sounds like this is already what the other teams in your org are doing, but you don't understand that Buck Sweep, Belly Sweep, and Power Sweep are all pretty much the same up front, or can be.

Honestly, in looking at your proposed terminology, all you're really doing is putting the backfield action before the play numbering system instead of after it like the Wing-T has done for nearly 70 years.  To me, that makes it a lot clunkier to process.  You don't really even need numbers because the backfield action really only puts one player in position to run the ball at that POA in each series, anyway, and it's not rocket surgery to coach even the Mighty Mite QB that on Trap, he's going to hand the ball off to the only back aiming for the Trap path.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

That Delaware terminology seems confusing at first

--Yes, it does.

but it organizes things well.

--Yes, it does.

there are also reasons why the other coaches in the org call things the way they do, especially if it's just YOU insisting they do it YOUR way.

--True, this ^.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Spyder89
(@spyder89)
Bronze
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 184
 

Wow, really?  Ray, how does that work?  For us, you can't be on our (youth) practice field without a Pop Warner ID.  Secondly, I don't want a bag-holder administering advice.  And there's no way a dad who's on the field isn't telling a player what to do.  And since he's not a coach, I don't want my players hearing from him.  Everything we say and do is specific to the way I do things.  There's no way a bag-holding dad shows up already knowing the methodology we use.

--Dave

Dave,

I don't coach in PW.  They do have to do the USA Football cert and have a background check.  Fortunately, I have been lucky enough to have a few parents that volunteer to do that in order to help out where needed.

I have a talk with them and they know that their job is to only do as one of the coaches tell them.  I never leave them alone with kids without a coach.  It helps that I don't ever split into any more than 3 different groups, so I have been fortunate to always have at least two assistant coaches.

I know that not everyone is that lucky to have the help, I was just explaining how I do it and it seems to help nudge the coaches.

- Ray


ReplyQuote
blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
Silver
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 847
 

I just thought it would be a great tool to have the info in one place to hand out to whoever wanted it. I felt it was really hard having only 2 coaches who were up to speed with the offense and 5 bag holders. Next season it would be great to have more like 5 coaches and 2 bag holders, hopefully.

Then develop it for your team.  Do it with your squad.  If it works the way you want to do it, then you can teach it to others if they want to learn.

The unfortunate reality in coaching is that a lot of guys just want to be bag holders who yell, or nobody ever explains things to them so they're not just bag holders who yell.

The good thing about the Wing-T is that you can coach it with 2 coaches.  The techniques and execution are what makes this offense work.  Not just the terminology.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

I don't coach in PW.  They do have to do the USA Football cert and have a background check.  Fortunately, I have been lucky enough to have a few parents that volunteer to do that in order to help out where needed.

I have a talk with them and they know that their job is to only do as one of the coaches tell them.  I never leave them alone with kids without a coach.  It helps that I don't ever split into any more than 3 different groups, so I have been fortunate to always have at least two assistant coaches.

I know that not everyone is that lucky to have the help, I was just explaining how I do it and it seems to help nudge the coaches.

Yeah, okay I get that.  Makes sense.  Just wondering how you do it because I know I couldn't do it.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Spyder89
(@spyder89)
Bronze
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 184
 

Yeah, okay I get that.  Makes sense.  Just wondering how you do it because I know I couldn't do it.

--Dave

I understand that.  Sometimes I leave things to be interpreted a little too much and should really clarify things on here when I'm typing them out.

- Ray


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

Sometimes I leave things to be interpreted a little too much and should really clarify things on here when I'm typing them out.

If you start doing that, then it's only a matter of time before your break into Mahonz' Top 10 List of time spent here.  (Although I have no idea whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.) 😉

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Spyder89
(@spyder89)
Bronze
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 184
 

If you start doing that, then it's only a matter of time before your break into Mahonz' Top 10 List of time spent here.  (Although I have no idea whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.) 😉

--Dave

I haven't been registered near long enough for that! It'll take a few years to catch up with you guys.

- Ray


ReplyQuote
Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

Dave. I am not trying to force anything on anyone. I just was thinking it would be easier if we all talked the same language. I have no intention of saying we have to do it this way. I was looking for advice on how to make a system run better and how to pass that on to other coaches in my org. I am thinking about stuff right now that I can't do during the season.

My team has done well. Coach JC and I coach together, I had the oline this season and I'll go back to being the header since he is moving up with little Jake. I think you saw some of our film this season.

While I know that a lot of people won't put in the research or do the extra work, I will always try and get the other coaches excited about learning more about the game of football. I guess I'm just an eternal optimist and I prefer it that way.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

I just was thinking it would be easier if we all talked the same language.

--Why?  How does another coach in your org speaking a different language to another team make it harder?  For who?  The players?  They'll have forgotten your language within 3 months of the last game.  And who cares if they don't know it in the off-season?  What matters is whether they know it in-season.  NO ONE else uses MY language.  AND kids come to my team having played for OTHER coaches.  AND my language is WORDY.  AND we teach a LOT of wrinkles in what is a CONTRARIAN offense.  And yet they still learn it all just fine.

I was looking for advice on how to make a system run better and how to pass that on to other coaches in my org.

--The best way is to be so successful with your team that others want to mimic it.  Set your team as the example.

I am thinking about stuff right now that I can't do during the season.

--Now's the best time.

My team has done well. Coach JC and I coach together

--What's Jake say about all this? 

I think you saw some of our film this season.

--Quite a bit, actually.  Probably one of the two best-coached youth teams I saw this year.

I guess I'm just an eternal optimist and I prefer it that way.

--Nothing wrong with being an optimist.  Just want you to spend your time in a productive way dealing with concerns that you can control; not wasting it in ways you can't.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

This was Jake's idea a couple of seasons ago. I argued against it saying you can't change the play names for everything. Then I saw what he ment and it made a lot more sense. We just wanted to be able to say what series we were in and not have to teach the entire playbook to the oline. So instead of the 3 numbered system, we tag the series separated by the numbers( back and hole) followed by the blocking tag. Backs learn series and numbers. oline learns blocking tag.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17794
 

This was Jake's idea a couple of seasons ago.

--Well then Jake's a nut, too.

I argued against it saying you can't change the play names for everything.

--Sounds like you started down the right path..

Then I saw what he ment and it made a lot more sense.

...and then you let Jake get in your head.

We just wanted to be able to say what series we were in and not have to teach the entire playbook to the oline.

--As I've said, I just teach the blocks/tags to the o-line.  Everything else in a play-call to them just sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher.  But if you're determined to do it, then knock yourself out.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

You do realize that many of the hottest offenses in college football (and even the NFL) have gone to using 1 word playcalls for years to simplify and speed things up for their players, right?  So if it works for the little guys and it works for D1 and Pro football teams (including Clemson and the Chiefs as a situational thing), why wouldn't it work for your older kids?
It would work. I just don't want to teach the line more that than 10-15 blocks. We have more plays then that.

If you all run the Wing-T and you want consistent terminology and a consistent playbook, then the old Delaware terminology already has you covered.  Find Tubby Raymond's old book as a .pdf or buy some materials on it (there are tons of them) and use that.  I'd lobby for that before I'd try to go to the whole league and say "you coaches should all use this new terminology I've come up with that I want to install for my kids!"

I have the book. It is a great resource.This way is less of a change then going back to the numbered play calling.90 percent is the same words, just a different order.

That Delaware terminology seems confusing at first, but it organizes things well.  Plays are a 3 digit call.  First number is the formation.  Second number is the backfield action.  Third number is the hole number--the holes are numbered 0-9 from left to right--1-5 on the left, 6-9 on the right.  Motion is mostly built in, but you can tag it on there at the beginning if you need to.  "Funky" formation tags are tagged on at the beginning, so you can run "Loose 100" formation."  No coach needs to install all of that in any given year--just take what you need and leave the rest out.  BOOM!  DONE!

If you want to make it easier on the OL to remember, just tag the blocking scheme after the play call ((Sweep, Trap, Waggle, O, Counter, Wedge, and XB take care of most of it).  If you want to get away from numbers altogether, name the formations, name the backfield actions (Buck, Belly, Down, Jet, Power, and maybe Rocket will be the biggies).  So you could just call "Right Buck Sweep," "Left Belly Sweep," etc. and be in business.  It sounds like this is already what the other teams in your org are doing, but you don't understand that Buck Sweep, Belly Sweep, and Power Sweep are all pretty much the same up front, or can be.
This is basically what we did, just with the back and hole numbering in between. Belly, buck and down are very different up front.

Honestly, in looking at your proposed terminology, all you're really doing is putting the backfield action before the play numbering system instead of after it like the Wing-T has done for nearly 70 years.  To me, that makes it a lot clunkier to process.  You don't really even need numbers because the backfield action really only puts one player in position to run the ball at that POA in each series, anyway, and it's not rocket surgery to coach even the Mighty Mite QB that on Trap, he's going to hand the ball off to the only back aiming for the Trap path.
Except we hand the ball on trap to 3 different backs. So the numbers help define their paths in the series we are running.So in buck it is only the fullback. In belly it could be the fullback(3), tailback(2), or split end(5).


ReplyQuote
Page 3 / 5
Share: