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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17721
 

Except we hand the ball on trap to 3 different backs. So the numbers help define their paths in the series we are running.So in buck it is only the fullback. In belly it could be the fullback(3), tailback(2), or split end(5).

Sounds like the problem's with Jake.  😉

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

The good thing about the Wing-T is that you can coach it with 2 coaches.  The techniques and execution are what makes this offense work.  Not just the terminology.

We did it this year with 2 coaches and did well, but it was not ideal. Also I am coaching with my younger son. I have a son at the level above him and one playing in high school.Having extra coaches around who know the offense and defense might mean I can duck out a little early on the occasional Friday night to watch my older son play. He plays for Randy Blankenship's program, an old time Wing t guy.


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Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

As I've said, I just teach the blocks/tags to the o-line.  Everything else in a play-call to them just sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher.  But if you're determined to do it, then knock yourself out.

--Dave

I guess I'm confused because that is exactly what we are doing.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17721
 

I guess I'm confused because that is exactly what we are doing.

But you're not as confused as I am.  That's the difference!

Now, if we can only add Goodman to the conversation....

-Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 9578
 

Looking at it as a computer language, I could see using a positional syntax or a key word syntax.  Positional syntax would mean they'd have to listen only for a word at the end, or the beginning, or wherever; key word syntax would mean they'd have to listen to the whole thing, because the key word could be anywhere.  But positional syntax can be convenient for certain things.  I'll illustrate by 3 calls:

"Fly" alone as the call would tell my whole team what to do; the line uses a reach scheme.

"Fly wedge" means fake the fly, run the wedge.  The last word is the actual play, the 1st word is the fake.  The line would wedge block.

"Wedge fly" means fake the wedge, run the fly.  However, the line still wedge blocks, so if they hear "wedge", they know it supersedes "fly" for their blocking scheme.

Maybe there are easier ways to do this when you want to fake 1 action & run another.  If you have a series where the actions are all in the same sequence, no problem, you just call the play & the other actions are faked automatically.  But if you have that play w other fake actions, then you need to say something else or in add'n.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17721
 

^ Perfect!

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 7660
 

OK just going to repeat what others have indicated.

It really doesnt matter WHAT OR HOW you name it.  ex: "Spider 2, Y-Banana" As long as you can Coach it, and the Kids understand it, its Golden!

(Gratuitous Gruden Play Call) 
 
😀

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

This is exactly where I am going. The position of the tag has meaning if is consistant. I I want an OSV trap play, they have veer and trap blocking already installed. I call Veer 52 trap
Backfield runs OSV, Line blocks trap, 5 back takes trap handoff to the 2 hole. To me it makes sense to speak the same language with my fellow coaches running the same system. Yes, of course we can all do our own thing. If we are running the same system it would seem to be a benefit, if we were able to collaborate together easily. I have had a son play at every level of our org. It is not just about my team for me. I would like the whole org to become a better program. A little organization seems like it would be a good thing if the off season.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17721
 

To me it makes sense to speak the same language with my fellow coaches running the same system. Yes, of course we can all do our own thing. If we are running the same system it would seem to be a benefit, if we were able to collaborate together easily. I have had a son play at every level of our org. It is not just about my team for me. I would like the whole org to become a better program. A little organization seems like it would be a good thing if the off season.

Then your org would have to have a "Head Coach" (like a Varsity header) and the ACs and other organization headers would have to fall under this one guy (as if they were the JV and Freshman teams).  And the org's Header would have to make sure that consistency is being taught with each team.  That would take a heckuva commitment by your entire org, or someone like a Cisar who was capable of dictating policy because it was his program.  You keep speaking of "benefit" but have yet to identify how it benefits or what the benefit actually is.  And saying, "We'd all be speaking the same language" doesn't qualify as a benefit because benefits only refer to improvements.  Just because we both speak the same language doesn't help me if you're not coaching with my team.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Sharkbait
(@sharkbait)
Copper
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 38
Topic starter  

Sharkbait...

So how are you handing the ball to so many different players on Trap on Belly action but still calling it Belly action?

Everyone not running the ball runs their belly path. If it is the 3, 2 still lead blocks the dive, 4 runs sweep. If it is the 2, 3 still fakes dive, 4 fakes sweep. We bring the SE in to a nasty split as our base formation. so if the 5 is getting it, the 2 an3 still fake five and the 4 runs sweep. All of these are blocked the same up front. The line hears trap and blocks it the same for belly, buck and veer.

If you're doing this with the young kids, maybe you should look at just paring it down to running Belly Trap as the one that fits the series action best.

Or simply tagging it "Belly F Trap," "Belly T Trap," "Belly X Trap" etc.
This is exactly what we are doing. Just that the placement of the tags have meaning.

An entire Belly series at the HS level is often something simple like Belly XB, Belly Sweep or Belly Option (pick one), Belly Tackle Trap (the big counter), and Belly Keep Pass.  That's it.
Same plays for us. Just by bringing the SE into a nasty split we have another back to use, 5 back. So in belly he can run trap or buck sweep. Meaning, Belly 58 Jack(jack is the tag for the line to block buck sweep) 4 back in motion, 2 and 3 fake dive action and 5 back runs sweep.the other way. O-line just blocks buck sweep.

Teaching your OL 10-15 blocks also sounds pretty complicated, especially if you're calling them all "Belly Trap" and expecting them to block it a bunch of different ways depending on who has the ball.
I had 8 blocks with 5-7 year olds, 14 blocks with7-9 yr olds this season. That being said I can teach Belly, Buck. and Down with 7 blocks that is our core. After that it only goes in if they have mastered the first 7.

Paring that down to 5-6 and just teaching them when to use each one is what I've done at the HS level and that works: Down, Scoop, Kick Out, Wrap, Kick Out, and maybe Reach.

I'm not teaching 14 techniques.  14 combos of blocks.

Except the guards, they might have to learn 4-5 techniques. For example RT has GDB and reach both ways, and release to inside backer on trap, 5 different blocks.


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SingleWingGoombah
(@singlewinggoombah)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2070
 

This is exactly where I am going. The position of the tag has meaning if is consistant. I I want an OSV trap play, they have veer and trap blocking already installed. I call Veer 52 trap
Backfield runs OSV, Line blocks trap, 5 back takes trap handoff to the 2 hole. To me it makes sense to speak the same language with my fellow coaches running the same system. Yes, of course we can all do our own thing. If we are running the same system it would seem to be a benefit, if we were able to collaborate together easily. I have had a son play at every level of our org. It is not just about my team for me. I would like the whole org to become a better program. A little organization seems like it would be a good thing if the off season.

Can it work? Absolutely. 

Personal experience... We had a tag called Left (meant the left guard was pulling, Left 32 trap for example)  While explaining this to the LGs I told them so when you hear left, you know you are pulling.

Fast forward, we add a play called pass left... Every once in a while guess who would pull on Pass Left cause they heard left?


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COACH JC
(@winged)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 6999
 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how is their no consistency?  The Wing-T has deep roots and all of the plays truly make sense if you understand what you are coaching. 

Is your playbook a bunch of made up plays from someone in the org?

Raises hand 😉

John coaches in the same association as me. We coached together last season.

Our terminology is not traditional because when we started running the DWT 7-8 years ago, we melded our fly based offense w/ the DWT & kept a lot of pur original terminology so we didn’t have to relearn everything.  Eventually we got everyone in the league running the DWT approx 4-5 years ago. But coches at each level have called things a little different at times.

Now, we’ve melded elements of FLY, DWT, Veer, & DTDW into our attack. Our terminology is so engrained in us, that a big overhaul would be very difficult. At least it would be for me. As it is our playbook has become so robust that I often have to stop & think about how to call a play..

Ironically it’s not the kids who are having any issues w/ the play calls. It’s us coaches. lol. Our play calls have become longer, but they’re more clear to the players.

This last year I added the series at the beginning of the play call, so the QB would know what footwork he was in. IE: Buck, 32 trap. Belly, 58 buck. 1st word is series/footwork, 2nd word is blocking scheme. This made a HUGE difference when it came to instillation. It allowed us to mesh series together & be more flexible. We ran more stuff w/ 8-9’s then i’d ever run w/ the 12-13’s.

But, it’s also created some confusion amongst the other coaches, & made it more difficult for us coaches to remember all the different play calls .

I don’t know that there’s a perfect way to solve how we call plays. But i’m definitely always looking for the smartest most efficient way to do so.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 6999
 

Shark, since I would only run the Double Wing, your org wouldn't let me coach with them. And if they did make a "special-allowance for Dave," I'm sure they'd have issues with the way I do some things/most things/everything else.  So I'd likely be a one-and-done, if I ever made it through Year 1.

However, since your org is a Wing-T org and I have NO IDEA of anything in regards to the Wing-T (especially terminology), that probably renders all of my posts in this thread as meaningless, anyway.

--Dave

We’d let you run the DTDW. Granted I’d prob want you to use pur terminology where possible (motions, formations etc). DTDW & WT have a lot of crossover.

I’d never turn away a guy that really knows his stuff & has his own system. That just doesn’t happen tho. Can’t remember the last time we got a really experienced coach that knew his stuff. It’s all newer guys.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 6999
 

I love the idea of one word play calling, but it shpuld prob be noted that most teams using 1 word calls are zone blocking teams. When you only need to know if you’re running IZ or OZ, it makes play calls VERY simple.

2 blocking schemes w/ some tags compared to 15-20 w/ tags, really is night and day.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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Wing-n-It
(@robert)
Platinum Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 3872
 

^ Perfect!

--Dave

You friggen asked

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


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