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terrypjohnson
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I saw the guys in the Double Wing Group on Facebook talking about this. I've attached the picture (the text in question is in red).

If I end up coaching in the fall (I might not because I'm new here AND they really need soccer coaches), I'd play in GRPA and this wouldn't effect me. But, I'm really getting irked with some of these rules (e.g. No direct snaps, no A gap runs, and now no cut blocks).

My question to the group is: 1) Am I missing something (e.g. is this a good thing)? 2) Do you guys anticipate more changes like this in the future? I ask because my youngest will be playing ball before long (and if he doesn't I'm going to bug every rec department in NW Georgia until I get a chance!)

Coach Terry

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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terrypjohnson
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For some reason... it didn't save the attachment... but here's the link

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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mahonz
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One side of me says this is BS....the other side of me says maybe its a good idea not to give chitty coaches the opportunity to cut block. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @terrypjohnson

My question to the group is: 1) Am I missing something (e.g. is this a good thing)? 2) Do you guys anticipate more changes like this in the future? I ask because my youngest will be playing ball before long (and if he doesn't I'm going to bug every rec department in NW Georgia until I get a chance!)

I haven't taught the cut/superman/shoeshine in forever.  The hinge/pull is a superior way to cut off the backside (or, just teach GaTE).  But many coaches who are up in arms about this rule change is because they don't know how to teach a hinge/pull, or simply don't understand how to teach a backside fill.  Both are beyond simple, but they haven't done it, don't know how to do it, would rather say that "kids at that age can't do it" and that it's a stupid rule.  The benefit of the rule has little to do with safety.  We taught cut blocking against our own players and there was no "threat" of injury.  The benefit is that it's a simpler way to perform a backside block and you can use the same technique that you teach on the playside (a down block).  An additional benefit is that it might possibly show some of those numbskulls that pulling is actually a usable, doable fundamental at the younger ages.  Of course, many of these same numbskulls will also argue with you about a chop block, calling the cut a chop, or a chop a cut, or thinking they're both the same.  

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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But to answer TPJ's question, "are these changes a good thing?"  No, not really, IMO.  They initially took away kick-offs from the younger groups, while still allowing the older groups to use them.  It was a "safety" excuse, but the reality is that kick-offs with the older teams go deeper, making the speed of the hits even harder, with bigger, older, faster kids.  Kick-offs at 8-years-old rarely go deeper than than an opponent's 40 yard line.  And because the kicks are usually roly-poly, the kids fielding them barely have enough time to catch the ball and fall on the ground.  But that was PW showing the world that they were all about "safety first."  

It's really a bad joke.  At 7-8, their rule forbade lining head-up over the Center.  At 9-10, you could line up over the Center but the offensive line had to be in a 2-point stance because it was safer.  However, the Center is still in what is essentially a 3-point stance AND at 9-10 you could line up directly over him.  So the Center is expendable?  So the Center's stance is risky but we won't protect him?  Of course the simple answer (since the 2-point stance is mandatory) is to not allow a down lineman to line up directly over the Center.  This maneuver would make the game "safer" for all of the linemen, not just those who aren't playing Center.  But that's the shortsightedness of PW and rule-manipulation.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @mahonz

One side of me says this is BS....the other side of me says maybe its a good idea not to give chitty coaches the opportunity to cut block. 

Dunno 'bout that, Mike.  Chitty coaches (or at least the ones populating Facebook) aren't the one's I concern myself with regarding the safeness of the cut block.  It's the guy who really knows how to teach it who can use it as a weapon.  But I get your drift...

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Troy
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Cut blocking is used by undersized, undermanned teams to slow DL penetration and give themselves a chance to execute plays. The only ones supporting banning cut blocking are coaches with superior size who dont want to be inconvenienced by smaller teams trying to do more with less. Our lines are frequently outsized by over 30 lbs per player. We crab and cut block without apology. 

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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mahonz
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @mahonz

One side of me says this is BS....the other side of me says maybe its a good idea not to give chitty coaches the opportunity to cut block. 

Dunno 'bout that, Mike.  Chitty coaches (or at least the ones populating Facebook) aren't the one's I concern myself with regarding the safeness of the cut block.  It's the guy who really knows how to teach it who can use it as a weapon.  But I get your drift...

--Dave

I should have been more clear. Its one thing to coach up your DLM to defeat a cut block....its another story when your DB's and LB'rs are getting cut. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
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Ironically, since I'm going back to the DW, I no longer have a need to coach a cut block. in 2009, Kent and I would often split the backside TE and simply didn't worry about filling for the pullers. 

But I agree with Troy that it's a vital tool when your o-line is out-gunned. 

I also agree with Mahonz because I see backs cutting CBs on a regular basis. On that 2008 team with Kent, our guys were getting cut on kick offs. Is that any reason to outlaw it? No. Just flag it appropriately. 

From the Facebook DW group: "I think chop blocks should be banned in youth."  That says all you need to know.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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terrypjohnson
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Posted by: @coachdp

Of course, many of these same numbskulls will also argue with you about a chop block, calling the cut a chop, or a chop a cut, or thinking they're both the same.  

There were a few that did. Fortunately, Ryan was there to straighten them out 🙂

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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Troy
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Ironically, since I'm going back to the DW, I no longer have a need to coach a cut block. in 2009, Kent and I would often split the backside TE and simply didn't worry about filling for the pullers. 

But I agree with Troy that it's a vital tool when your o-line is out-gunned. 

I also agree with Mahonz because I see backs cutting CBs on a regular basis. On that 2008 team with Kent, our guys were getting cut on kick offs. Is that any reason to outlaw it? No. Just flag it appropriately. 

From the Facebook DW group: "I think chop blocks should be banned in youth."  That says all you need to know.

Cutting outside the FBZ should be penalized as it is illegal. When you down block and cut frequently, chop blocks happen. We don't condone or coach it and we explain what's illegal. We also get our OL cut blocked by the defense continuously to stop our wedge, so if they banned cut blocking in the FBZ, I presume it would apply both ways. If so, that would probably be to our advantage.

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @troy
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Ironically, since I'm going back to the DW, I no longer have a need to coach a cut block. in 2009, Kent and I would often split the backside TE and simply didn't worry about filling for the pullers. 

But I agree with Troy that it's a vital tool when your o-line is out-gunned. 

I also agree with Mahonz because I see backs cutting CBs on a regular basis. On that 2008 team with Kent, our guys were getting cut on kick offs. Is that any reason to outlaw it? No. Just flag it appropriately. 

From the Facebook DW group: "I think chop blocks should be banned in youth."  That says all you need to know.

Cutting outside the FBZ should be penalized as it is illegal. When you down block and cut frequently, chop blocks happen. We don't condone or coach it and we explain what's illegal. We also get our OL cut blocked by the defense continuously to stop our wedge, so if they banned cut blocking in the FBZ, I presume it would apply both ways. If so, that would probably be to our advantage.

Sorry . . . not sorry, LOL. You'll be happy to know that Mahonz has carte blanche on the defense with zero interference from me. He HATES cut blocking/submarining/crabbing/whateveryouwanttocallit. The bad news is that left to his own designs, he'll come up with an absolute face melter of a defense.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Troy
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@gumby_in_co  is Mahonz back?

 

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @troy

@gumby_in_co  is Mahonz back?

 

Yep. I asked him to run my defense. He and I are polar opposites on defensive philosophy, which I see as a very good thing. I'm too conservative and vanilla. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Troy
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@gumby_in_co I'm glad to hear that. Welcome back @Mahonz!

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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