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Team under me that had hopes of going 9-0 are 0-5 and free falling  

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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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October 16, 2014 8:20 am  

Believe me, I get it. Everyone is not a winner. Mahonz, you should have asked the principal if they give perfect attendance awards to everyone, or do they give honor roll awards to everyone, since we do not want anyone left out and we all are winners. Better yet how about we just pass everyone to the next grade since we all are winners!

M

Good points. I really did not like that school at all.

When we enrolled our kids for K we had to sign a release form stating that the Teachers could call Social Serves if they detected any child abuse. This was the mid 1980's. When asked if the Teachers were qualified to do this we were told that was none of our business.

What pissed us off was my son was as tall as every doorknob in our home...and he was really good at running into them. He was a rough and tumble kid with bruises everywhere.

Speaking of Awards....same school. We went to parent teacher conferences. My Daughter had worked her butt off on a Diaroma for weeks. All of them were on display in the classroom. We knew my Daughter did not like her Teacher and there were a few issues although nothing major. Every Diaroma had a gold star on it except one....my Daughters.

I flippin' ripped that woman a new one and reported her to the Principle. There were no more issues the rest of the year. So there is an example of everyone getting an Award except your favorites.  >:( I will never forget that woman....she was a piece of crap but feared crossing my path from that day forward. My Daughter's grades even improved. If you knew my Daughter you'd understand too....not a trouble maker and received an Academic Scholarship to College. For reasons unknown...this Teacher did not like her and let her know it.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 12408
October 16, 2014 9:32 am  

Let me get this straight, one kid does not show maximum effort in practice, the whole team does not get a participation reward?

Nevermind the fact that some people are gamers and do not practice well.

"we talking bout practice, not a game, practice" - Allen Iverson

Participation, which the reward is named for, by itself is not enough. Now some have gone and created levels of participation.

WOW!!!!!

Nobody on our team gets a participation award. We do not allow our kids to half ass it in practice. Te ones that are "gamers" but don't practice well are just allowed to slack  because the coaches don't know how to motivate or discipline those kids into practicing up to the desired level. The behavior is allowed because the kid is a good player. Imagine how good he would be if made to practice up to a high level.

There are levels of participation. I like the saying that in a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was committed.

I really think the Allen Iverson analogy is comical. Anyone who would want that sort of mentality from a football coach or player is foolish. Football games are not won on game day. They are won on the practice field. Just think about it, Iverson might of won an NBA title if his attitude about practice was not so pathetic(and if he wasn't the ultimate its all about me type player). That is the crappy effort I am talking about. Any kid can come to practice and stand around and do nothing(if you feel so inclined to allow that to happen). Let's hand that a kid a trophy. Great job kid!


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 16, 2014 9:33 am  

Believe me, I get it. Everyone is not a winner. Mahonz, you should have asked the principal if they give perfect attendance awards to everyone, or do they give honor roll awards to everyone, since we do not want anyone left out and we all are winners. Better yet how about we just pass everyone to the next grade since we all are winners!

This is exactly what I am saying. Why is it not the same for football? We seem to actually agree so I am confused with some of your statements.


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paccoach
(@paccoach)
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Posts: 173
October 16, 2014 9:55 am  

There's a difference between an award for an achievement and an award for showing up.  I don't think anybody ever mistook an award for showing up for an award for an achievement.

If a team goes 1-7 and gets a participation trophy that said "County Champs", I'd probably have a problem with that but other than that, who cares?

A momento isn't a lie.  It's just something small that represents a memory.  That's all participation trophies are (or should be).


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coachmyles
(@coachmyles)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 475
October 16, 2014 10:24 am  

Nobody on our team gets a participation award.
So, how many times are you going to type that?

We do not allow our kids to half ass it in practice. Te ones that are "gamers" but don't practice well are just allowed to slack  because the coaches don't know how to motivate or discipline those kids into practicing up to the desired level. The behavior is allowed because the kid is a good player. Imagine how good he would be if made to practice up to a high level.
I am pretty sure you do not, all your players give 100% effort and you have zero mpp's

There are levels of participation.
No there is not. Either you did take part or you did not, plain and simple.

I like the saying that in a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was committed.
Actually the chicken is just as committed as the pig, if not more. The chicken committed her unformed baby chick.

I really think the Allen Iverson analogy is comical.
All I did was quote him, it is funny how you mistake a quote for an analogy.

Anyone who would want that sort of mentality from a football coach or player is foolish. Football games are not won on game day. They are won on the practice field.
I guess you are undefeated, since your kids give 100% effort, disciplined, and practice better than everyone else.

Just think about it, Iverson might of won an NBA title if his attitude about practice was not so pathetic(and if he wasn't the ultimate its all about me type player).
For a guy under 6", he won a NBA MVP and led the league in scoring multiple times, I am pretty sure that took some practice. BTW he was the state of Virginia Player of the year in basketball and football his junior year! Certainly not a stranger to practice. He would have won a title if he did not have to face Shaq and Kobe at the height of there powers.

That is the crappy effort I am talking about. Any kid can come to practice and stand around and do nothing(if you feel so inclined to allow that to happen). Let's hand that a kid a trophy. Great job kid!
If a coach allows a kid to come to practice, stand around and do nothing, that is on the coach not the kid!

"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare to win"The General Robert Montgomery Knight(Bobby Knight)Amat Victoria Curad"Victory Favors the PREPARED!"


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coachmyles
(@coachmyles)
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October 16, 2014 10:29 am  

This is exactly what I am saying. Why is it not the same for football? We seem to actually agree so I am confused with some of your statements.

Especially football, basketball, and baseball. You want kids to earn everything they get, yet somehow have to play by mpp requirements, I get that, we are in agreement. Where the divide comes in at, I want every kid who participates to get a reward because they did not have to. It is my way of saying thanks for playing, regardless of how the season went. You only want them to have something for winning, since that is all they can earn in your eyes.

"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare to win"The General Robert Montgomery Knight(Bobby Knight)Amat Victoria Curad"Victory Favors the PREPARED!"


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Posts: 4144
October 16, 2014 10:42 am  

Neither for nor against them. If it makes the kids and parents happy . . . fine, buy yourselves trophies. If you feel that trophies are only for winners . . . fine, don't buy yourselves trophies.

My son's hockey team won State last season in the "AA" division. They beat their hated . . . let me rephrase that . . . HATED rivals on their home ice, which is an old, dark and smelly rink, and drank deeply from their sweet tears of darkest despair. After the game, no State rep to congratulate us, no medals or trophies. There was a guy from the referee's org (nothing to do with our league other than we pay them) who came out to hand them the banner. He tried to say a few words, but the microphone was broken, so he just shrugged and handed the rolled up banner to our coach and walked off the ice.

On the other hand, the "A" division (one below us) doesn't have an official state championship. The champions and runners up of the two major leagues play in a tournament called the "Avalanche Cup". The championship game is held at the Pepsi Center with the Avs mascot, Jumbotron and official announcers. The winning team gets a giant trophy and each player gets a 1st and 2nd place medal.

No way in hell would my kid trade places with the "A Champions" with their medals and trophies.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 8 years ago
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October 16, 2014 1:07 pm  

Especially football, basketball, and baseball. You want kids to earn everything they get, yet somehow have to play by mpp requirements, I get that, we are in agreement. Where the divide comes in at, I want every kid who participates to get a reward because they did not have to. It is my way of saying thanks for playing, regardless of how the season went. You only want them to have something for winning, since that is all they can earn in your eyes.

I am not a win at all cost and winning is the only goal coach. You don't know anything about me or the things we have accomplished or anything about the lives we have changed over the years. Don't go there. What I want for the kids is for them to develop as players but much more importantly as young men. If you feel handing them a trophy helps you make them a better person(I am assuming that is your goal and have no reason what so ever to doubt that) then more power to you. But don't confuse not accepting poor effort as a win at all cost attitude. If I don't try to install in my kids an attitude to go out and give all that they can possibly give towards any and every en devour I am a failure as a coach. At least the way I see it. So yes, we go out there with a win every game attitude but when we lose we view it as a failure on the coaching staff and make sure the kids know that. When we lose we lose because we got out coached. Period. I am coming from a point of view that we are grooming these kids to do well in life, not just participate in a sport. Anybody can participate in a sport. Few can give it all they have, and win or lose pick themselves up and be proud of their efforts. That is what I want from my kids because that is what we give them and what we believe they need to grow as people and be successful in life. Maybe our goals are bigger than yours or maybe I view the game as a teacher of lessons much bigger than the sport. Maybe you have the same visions but have a different approach. I will say that what we do works. And works well.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 16, 2014 1:21 pm  

Nobody on our team gets a participation award.
So, how many times are you going to type that?
I'll get bored of it soon. As I am of this thread which has beaten to death in a million other places on this site
We do not allow our kids to half ass it in practice. Te ones that are "gamers" but don't practice well are just allowed to slack  because the coaches don't know how to motivate or discipline those kids into practicing up to the desired level. The behavior is allowed because the kid is a good player. Imagine how good he would be if made to practice up to a high level.
I am pretty sure you do not, all your players give 100% effort and you have zero mpp's
Not all of our players give 100% all the time. But we push them to try. We let them know that is how you succeed in anything in life. We do not have mpps. We do have kids with little physical ability. That is because we coach them up to be good role players and contributors. None of our kids feel like they don't have a contributing role on the team.
There are levels of participation.
No there is not. Either you did take part or you did not, plain and simple.
If you say so. Not worth arguing about.
I like the saying that in a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was committed.
Actually the chicken is just as committed as the pig, if not more. The chicken committed her unformed baby chick.
You really need to learn more about chicken eggs you eat. They are not fertilized so no chick. I thought you might get the analogy. Guess you didn't. Or you did and want to be argumentative.
I really think the Allen Iverson analogy is comical.
All I did was quote him, it is funny how you mistake a quote for an analogy.
So why did you quote him making one of the most ridiculous statements a pro athlete has ever made? It seems horribly out of place in this topic.
Anyone who would want that sort of mentality from a football coach or player is foolish. Football games are not won on game day. They are won on the practice field.
I guess you are undefeated, since your kids give 100% effort, disciplined, and practice better than everyone else.
Yes we are undefeated. I could rattle of what our records over the last 9 years are but you probably wouldn't believe me. And I do think that out practices are much more disciplined and effective than most. Not even close to tell you the truth(that doesn't include many on this site, just most youth coaches)I also believe that our kids give more effort than most. Without that we would not win at the % that we do.
Just think about it, Iverson might of won an NBA title if his attitude about practice was not so pathetic(and if he wasn't the ultimate its all about me type player).
For a guy under 6", he won a NBA MVP and led the league in scoring multiple times, I am pretty sure that took some practice. BTW he was the state of Virginia Player of the year in basketball and football his junior year! Certainly not a stranger to practice. He would have won a title if he did not have to face Shaq and Kobe at the height of there powers.
I could not care about less Iverson. That statement he made showed me what he is made off.
That is the crappy effort I am talking about. Any kid can come to practice and stand around and do nothing(if you feel so inclined to allow that to happen). Let's hand that a kid a trophy. Great job kid!
If a coach allows a kid to come to practice, stand around and do nothing, that is on the coach not the kid!
That was my point!


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coachtut
(@coachtut)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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October 16, 2014 2:03 pm  

This taught me and our board a lesson, we are putting in a bylaw that states 28 kids a split needs to be considered, 30 kids a split has to be voted on by the board, 32 kids in is an automatic split. 

I have been on our pop warner board for 6 years now, I have very strong beliefs about team size.

15-32 kids sign up, 1 team.  Some get hurt, some don't like it etc.

33-35 kids sign up, 1 team, kids 33, 34, 35 are given refunds and told to sign up earlier next year.

36 or more kids, 2 teams.

My personal beliefs are rooted with two factors.

1. The absolute WORSE thing that could possibly happen is for a team of 16 to practice the entire month of August then two kids quit, one breaks his arm and two kids get sick.  I have seen it happen in our organization and others, they end up dissolving the team.

2. PARENTS put wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much emphasis on the GAMES.  In our organization I explain very clearly that we have minimum play rules, if your kid gets his plays then we don't have anything to talk about.  BUT, practice is where the kids are improving, I tell the parents in front of the coaches at gear hand out that if their kids are standing around listening to coach talk for a good portion of practice to give me a call.  Our coaches know, split them into small groups and coach them up!  Moral of the story, kids improve in practice, NOT GAMES.  Over 100 hours in helmets for practice, 16 hours in games?!  You do the math.

With this belief our organization is getting more and more competitive every year.

I know others will argue that if you can field a team of 15 you should split but I disagree for the above two reasons.  Oh and let's not forget, you have to find a COMPETENT coach to coach those 15 kids.  Best of luck to you on that!  ::)

Coach Tut


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Coachrich
(@coachrich)
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Joined: 8 years ago
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October 17, 2014 9:03 am  

Reading this thread makes me believe our league is structured way different than most and I'm glad.... I Coach for one of the smaller orgs in our league.  My teams get the best numbers in our org at about 25 (other 3 are around 20 ). Each team is 2 years (mine 8-9 ). We have a very competitive league with official "varsity" games on the weekend.  Most teams also have a JV team and we set up games or scrimmages during the week.  No one is guaranteed varsity time but everyone who doesn't play plays in the JV game.  I take these games very seriously but in a different way.  The varsity games I have 14 regulars who play 99% of the plays its not "win at all costs" but its very competitive.  The JV games I don't really care about winning but instead its all about coaching kids up and developing them.  I'll often talk the opposing coach into us being on the field so that we can really be hands on. 
Some of the parents still moan a little but for the most part when I explain to them why I do what I do and they then pay attention to it they become appreciative.  But no way are numbers 16 thru 25 seeing the varsity field until the other team puts their JV ERS in.  My point is everyone is playing in a game and getting better each week but the better players who deserve to be on the game field are when it matters

For whatsoever your hands find to do, do it with all your might  ECC 9:10


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
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October 17, 2014 9:12 am  

Reading this thread makes me believe our league is structured way different than most and I'm glad.... I Coach for one of the smaller orgs in our league.  My teams get the best numbers in our org at about 25 (other 3 are around 20 ). Each team is 2 years (mine 8-9 ). We have a very competitive league with official "varsity" games on the weekend.  Most teams also have a JV team and we set up games or scrimmages during the week.  No one is guaranteed varsity time but everyone who doesn't play plays in the JV game.  I take these games very seriously but in a different way.  The varsity games I have 14 regulars who play 99% of the plays its not "win at all costs" but its very competitive.  The JV games I don't really care about winning but instead its all about coaching kids up and developing them.  I'll often talk the opposing coach into us being on the field so that we can really be hands on. 
Some of the parents still moan a little but for the most part when I explain to them why I do what I do and they then pay attention to it they become appreciative.  But no way are numbers 16 thru 25 seeing the varsity field until the other team puts their JV ERS in.  My point is everyone is playing in a game and getting better each week but the better players who deserve to be on the game field are when it matters

So essentially you have a team of 25 and only 14 play meaningful minutes.  ::)

This is what several coaches in our league do; have 30-40 and play 15-18 (though we don't have "JV" games - those kids just don't play unless its a blowout). Doesn't require much coaching if you ask me.

My goal is always to coach EVERYONE up so that EVERYONE can contribute in a meaningful way. Not going to be the same for everyone but they will all play a reasonable number of MEANINGFUL snaps and will add value.

Whether you call it "JV game," "5th quarter," etc. - kids know when you're giving them garbage time and so do the parents.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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Coachrich
(@coachrich)
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October 18, 2014 5:53 am  

Yes.  That's correct.  After the first 14 to 15 on my team the drop off is significant.  Almost all are younger or first year players.  The teams I'm playing have rosters of 40 to 60 kids and only carry their best 20 to varsity games.  If I put my "#20"  in that game I'm putting him and the rest of my team at risk.
I work my tail off to develop those boys and because of that the parents don't complain.  Plus at this point in the season a few of them have progressed to the point they are getting varsity time. 

For whatsoever your hands find to do, do it with all your might  ECC 9:10


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
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October 18, 2014 11:06 am  

Yes.  That's correct.  After the first 14 to 15 on my team the drop off is significant.  Almost all are younger or first year players.  The teams I'm playing have rosters of 40 to 60 kids and only carry their best 20 to varsity games.  If I put my "#20"  in that game I'm putting him and the rest of my team at risk.
I work my tail off to develop those boys and because of that the parents don't complain.  Plus at this point in the season a few of them have progressed to the point they are getting varsity time.

Rosters of 40-60 at 8U that don't split and only play their best 20...and you are "glad" that your league is structured the way it is?  ???

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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October 18, 2014 11:50 am  

Rosters of 40-60 at 8U that don't split and only play their best 20...and you are "glad" that your league is structured the way it is?  ???

Yeah, but they could go all the way. 😆


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