The Cost of Winning
 
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The Cost of Winning  

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Prodigy
(@prodigy)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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November 19, 2020 4:01 pm  

A couple of things:  I'm originally from WNY and in my town there was a private catholic school.  I'm not sure who they played against but they weren't really great and neither were we.  The powerhouse teams were out in farm-land and they whipped the crap out of us pretty religiously...actually almost everyone whipped the crap out of us.  We did however; have a phenomenal basketball team that won states etc....too bad I never liked basketball.

Youth Ball - When I was involved with standing up a program, we had a big advantage (with a disadvantage) that there wasn't another American Youth Football program anywhere in our locality.  The nearest AYF team was about an hour away, meaning we could recruit anyone and everyone with a pretty wide net.  All of the "big" kids that couldn't play pop warner or in the local home-grown league, could come to us.  The disadvantage here is travel.  Years ago, there was a Pop Warner in every town in my area, meaning practice was about 10 minutes away for pretty much everyone.  Covering a larger area, we did our best to centrally locate our practices but for some families they were driving 30-60 minutes multiple times a week during periods of high traffic to attend practices.  Away games we were driving about an hour.  Interestingly enough, the local Pop Warner programs were telling everyone that there was more travel playing for us...I took all of the pop warner teams and ran them into a spreadsheet along with distances from town to their fields and averaged it out...it came out to be about the same as the average for all of the AYF teams.

With regards to rules...regardless of how stupid they may seem, they should be followed, otherwise you're a cheater.  I guess in some regards, there is some grey area.  I'm a big proponent of getting contact without equipment.  If memory serves, I think that it says something about how X practices or hours have to happen of conditioning before pads are introduced, it didn't actually say anything about contact...I think that's because the assumption is that you will not be running any drills requiring contact without pads...so are we actually breaking rules by allowing kids contact without pads?  Some would say yes, some would say no.

There are some rules that I think are silly...like no videotaping your opponents practices.  First off, I would never do this.  I don't really care about videotaping my opponents practices.  I might...might sit and observe their practices but really I would rather spend time preparing my team, not watching another team practice.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17458
North Carolina
High School
November 19, 2020 6:30 pm  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

What is 100% illegal is cutting kids or even "encouraging" kids to find another team.

I hate both of those rules because neither can be enforced.  And many coaches are actually "encouraging" kids to find another team because of how bad they are as coaches.  Trouble is, they have no idea they're encouraging the kid to leave.  "Jerk coaches" are much the same way.  They're jerks to everyone, but slightly less jerk-like around the players they know can help them.  You can't legislate this stuff.

I've never coached an "elite" or "stacked" team.  I have hand-picked a team, in that when I coached 7-9s, we had two teams and the other header and myself took turns choosing kids.  So I guess I picked everyone who ended up on my team.  

We've beaten private schools, and "stacked" youth squads.  You can't beat them if you aren't willing to play them.  And I was always eager to show off what it was we'd worked so hard to accomplish.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4178
November 19, 2020 9:15 pm  
Posted by: @prodigy

If memory serves, I think that it says something about how X practices or hours have to happen of conditioning before pads are introduced, it didn't actually say anything about contact...I think that's because the assumption is that you will not be running any drills requiring contact without pads...so are we actually breaking rules by allowing kids contact without pads?  Some would say yes, some would say no.

Our league closed that loophole:

19.1.8     The first 3 days of practice for all players, regardless of date of entry to the JYFA program, shall consist of conditioning and non-contact practice.

19.1.8.1    Non-contact is defined as no physical contact: player to player or player to coach

As far as videotaping opponents' practices. I asked that very question as a new coach about 15 years ago in the DW coaches forum. Many guys, DP included opined that it was "dirty pool". 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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November 19, 2020 9:21 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

What is 100% illegal is cutting kids or even "encouraging" kids to find another team.

I hate both of those rules because neither can be enforced.  And many coaches are actually "encouraging" kids to find another team because of how bad they are as coaches.  Trouble is, they have no idea they're encouraging the kid to leave.  "Jerk coaches" are much the same way.  They're jerks to everyone, but slightly less jerk-like around the players they know can help them.  You can't legislate this stuff.

Agree. But if the rule is in place when I register as a coach, I follow the rule that I hate. My option is to go elsewhere.

I've never coached an "elite" or "stacked" team.  I have hand-picked a team, in that when I coached 7-9s, we had two teams and the other header and myself took turns choosing kids.  So I guess I picked everyone who ended up on my team.  

Mahonz and I coached a stacked Spring team consisting of mostly Freshmen in an 8th grade division (completely legal). We weren't planning on it, but a couple of our players started talking among themselves and formed their own team. They talked us in to coaching them (wasn't hard). We had around 35 kids sign up. We uninvited 3. Two were very poor players. The third was just shy of mediocre. The two very poor players were "cut" because they were Halloween players and Mahonz and I decided there was no room for that on this team. The third begged Mahonz for one more chance and promised "If you take me, you won't regret it." We took him and he was right. 

--Dave

 

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22980
November 21, 2020 11:02 pm  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

I probably get too worked up about stuff like this. Mahonz is probably sick to death of me and my soapbox.

Nope. Its a healthy exercise. We've both seen a lot of crap over the years. I just tend to get over it a bit faster. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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November 21, 2020 11:26 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp

Mahonz and I coached a stacked Spring team consisting of mostly Freshmen in an 8th grade division (completely legal). We weren't planning on it, but a couple of our players started talking among themselves and formed their own team. They talked us in to coaching them (wasn't hard). We had around 35 kids sign up. We uninvited 3. Two were very poor players. The third was just shy of mediocre. The two very poor players were "cut" because they were Halloween players and Mahonz and I decided there was no room for that on this team. The third begged Mahonz for one more chance and promised "If you take me, you won't regret it." We took him and he was right. 

I miss being able to cut kids. Forced the parents to fear the format....my format. When you pay all the bills you earn that right. This year Rice would have been gone by mid September, for example. If I continue coaching next season...Im going back to my old "go tell it to a tree" mentality when it comes to players and their Agents excuses. This open book no problem approach isnt working. But I took the Leagues advise and went warm and fuzzy due to COVID this year. 

Rice explained. We have a Team Rule. Tell us when you will miss a game and give us some notice so we can prepare. Obvious unforeseen's are exempt. This kid informs me on Thursday that he will miss the game on Saturday.

Im thinking...thanks dickhead....now I have 1 hour to shuffle and fill your reps....like....who is my kicker now. 

I ask him why.

Going to visit grandma. 

Im thinking...OK...leaving town....still should have told me sooner. 

Where does Grandma live?

In Parker. 

Parker is 20 miles from where we all live. 

He should have been cut on the spot. Then Grandma would have come to see him play instead. 

This post was modified 4 days ago 2 times by mahonz

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4178
November 22, 2020 1:43 am  
Posted by: @mahonz
Posted by: @coachdp

Mahonz and I coached a stacked Spring team consisting of mostly Freshmen in an 8th grade division (completely legal). We weren't planning on it, but a couple of our players started talking among themselves and formed their own team. They talked us in to coaching them (wasn't hard). We had around 35 kids sign up. We uninvited 3. Two were very poor players. The third was just shy of mediocre. The two very poor players were "cut" because they were Halloween players and Mahonz and I decided there was no room for that on this team. The third begged Mahonz for one more chance and promised "If you take me, you won't regret it." We took him and he was right. 

But I took the Leagues advise and went warm and fuzzy due to COVID this year. 

Nah. No point in second guessing that decision. It was the right call. Did attendance and commitment suffer? Certainly, but if we've learned one thing from this season, it's that there are more important things in life than whatever is bothering us on game day. 

Think about it, Mike. Flex was hanging by a thread. I knew it wasn't happening, but you still clung to hope. Flex died. because we hit the "peak" 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 (Yeah, if only we had a crystal ball).

Then the curve flattened and tackle had a faint heartbeat. I knew it wasn't happening, but you still clung to hope. Tackle made a miracle recovery. I wanted no part of it. Then, I did, but marinate on this:  What are the freaking odds that we made it through an 8 game season with zero community spread? Zero outbreaks due to football? Then what I consider to be the best postseason in JMFA history? This season was a miracle. Plain and simple. It will probably go down as my favorite season ever because saved me from circling the drain from a mental health standpoint. 

So next season, when you come back (I came back this season, so you owe me one), we can go back to our strict attendance policy, benching kids when they show up after pre-game, Godzillas, etc. etc. etc. This season, we did the right thing. 

BTW to anyone else following this conversation, Rice was a weird, weird situation. No less than 4 times this season, someone would mention his name and I would ask "is he still even on this team?". That's how spotty his attendance was. Or, I'd see him and I'd have the same reaction to seeing a deer in my yard. "Ooh! Don't scare him away!" Not the HC and Rice isn't a lineman, so not my problem.  Then, Mahonz leaves me in charge of the post season, giving me a glimpse into "Mr. Rice's Wild Ride". I emailed all the parents on the Friday before the festival to make sure they would still show up under the "no spectators" rule. Get an email from Rice's mom. "We moved to Dallas last week." Can't make this stuff up.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22980
November 22, 2020 8:51 am  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

What are the freaking odds that we made it through an 8 game season with zero community spread? Zero outbreaks due to football? Then what I consider to be the best postseason in JMFA history? This season was a miracle. Plain and simple. It will probably go down as my favorite season ever because saved me from circling the drain from a mental health standpoint. 

Really happy you decided to coach. 

Pretty sure I had COVID all season. Riding home each day with all the equipment must have been like riding in a giant COVID petri dish. 😎 

About two weeks ago I deep cleaned out the Beater Van. Its never been this clean before. 

But you are correct....it was a miracle season.  

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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