Why I Dont Recuit
 
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Why I Dont Recuit

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Michael
(@michael)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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But then we would have to hear about Daves record in Jello wrestling over the past 18 seasons, and Mike and how he switches flavors of Jello all the time, and how using a mega wide pool to wrestle in is the best.

Yeah, but we'd also have to hear about Mahonz's STOOOOPID simple method for winning rock, paper, scissors, and why everyone else has gotten it wrong since the beginning of time.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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I always suggest Jell-O wrestling in these situations...

Not something I'd like to see.


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Topic starter  

Gumby and Mike- no need to get your panties in a bind

Mike has mentioned many times about his ability to upgrade his talent and is always on the lookout for good athletes
I know when his team finished under .500 a couple of years back when competing in the "A" Division- he had a goal to infuse talent and did and the team improved
Mike had mentioned having conversations with  very weak kids parents to have them go back into the draft so they could get on a team that would offer them more playing time/easier level of competition- his words- not mine.
Gumby mentioned "asking" Mike if he could offer kids from their Spring team to play Fall- kids that werent already in the league- Gumbys words- not mine. So if you have to ask- then it was my assumption it was selective, not automatic. If it wasn't then that's my mistake and I apologize

As to camps being good recruiting grounds- I thought Mike had mentioned that several times- that they were great places to meet prospective players and to keep a high profile so prospective parents would choose to contact- If I got that wrong I apologize. I dont hang on every work Mike and Gumby say- taking what I did from some of their conversations- posts.

The goal of the thread was to warn coaches about the problems with very good athletes who are willing to jump from team to team.
Early on in Omaha, our first couple of years when were just starting out and struggling in a lot of ways- some of our early coaches personally went out and recruited some very strong players from other programs most who werent in our league a few who were. IMO the early problems we had were often times connected to the kids/families that our guys had targeted because they were very strong players. These recruited players/families were often times high maintenance, parents were a problem, they rarely if ever lended a helping hand in doing anything at all. It was like we were waiting on them in a restaurant- providing exceptional service to boors who left without paying, without leaving a tip or saying thank you- meanwhile being so obnioxious that our best cook quit and to top it off- running off and negatively influencing some of our regular middle of the road customers. Put a very sour taste in my mouth. It also created some real heartburn with other programs- some grudges that still exist today- even though we went completely away from taking kids from other programs in about 2002 and that Omaha program doesnt even exist now.

When we went to solely the mass recruiting- scarcity model- things really took off. And it was a lot more fun- less issues.

Camps, spring football, events, personal relationships are all great ways to recruit kids if they are allowed in your league
My point was IF you are selective about recruiting- it has been my experience that this can cause problems- compared to offering everyone and using a scarcity approach

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Gumby and Mike- no need to get your panties in a bind

I've tried many times and in many ways to explain to you that you sometimes inaccurately describe what we do and that it bothers me. So you don't really get to minimize my reaction.

Mike had mentioned having conversations with  very weak kids parents to have them go back into the draft so they could get on a team that would offer them more playing time/easier level of competition- his words- not mine.

Yep. But then you make the leap to "you are running kids off" which is completely not the case. If the kid says he wants stay for any reason at all, that's the end of the conversation. We simply point out that he may have more fun as a contributor on a D3 team than being a "single tasker" on a D2 team. That comes from a place of genuine caring for the kid.

Gumby mentioned "asking" Mike if he could offer kids from their Spring team to play Fall- kids that werent already in the league- Gumbys words- not mine. So if you have to ask- then it was my assumption it was selective, not automatic. If it wasn't then that's my mistake and I apologize

I've told you several times that this is not selective. EVERYONE who play for us in Spring who is new to our league has been offered a spot on our Fall team. 15 (maybe more) kids have asked us to move to our Fall team, but already played in our league. They were told to stay with their current team. This includes the best athlete in the league. Yep. He wanted to come to us, but we advised him to say put. My Spring "cherry picking" has yielded 2 absolute MPPs and a "project" player who has some work to do before he rises to "mediocre".

As to camps being good recruiting grounds- I thought Mike had mentioned that several times- that they were great places to meet prospective players and to keep a high profile so prospective parents would choose to contact-

Also a big leap to "cherry picking the best players". Some of the things you've said about us, could get us banned from coaching in our league, true or not. It's not a court of law and we're not innocent until proven guilty. Get enough votes in the room who don't care for us and we're done. That's the fire that you're playing with. That, however, pales to how I feel about my integrity and reputation.

Apology accepted.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
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Yeah, but we'd also have to hear about Mahonz's STOOOOPID simple method for winning rock, paper, scissors, and why everyone else has gotten it wrong since the beginning of time.

I always loose rock, paper, scissors.  🙁

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4510
 

I always loose rock, paper, scissors.  🙁

The trick is to choose paper every time, but spread your fingers "mega wide".

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Mike has mentioned many times about his ability to upgrade his talent and is always on the lookout for good athletes

Constantly. Its never ending. I even have Parents on the prowl for me. But they have to be a legal recruit. We cant poach off existing teams.

If I can avoid drafting blind I'm happy because at least I know what Im getting in a player and more importantly....the parents. As the kids get older the Draft fills up with "team jumpers" so I like to avoid those grass is always greener Dads. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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SingleWingGoombah
(@singlewinggoombah)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2070
 

I even have Parents on the prowl for me

But its just moms after those flowing locks of hair.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Mike had mentioned having conversations with  very weak kids parents to have them go back into the draft so they could get on a team that would offer them more playing time/easier level of competition- his words- not mine.

Absolutely. There are big differences between the 3 Divisions talent wise.....competition wise until about the 8th grade.  Then attrition has hit and the coaching is all pretty good in all Divisions.

Twice with the Fall team we just finished up with I had a player go into the Draft and request D3 per my suggestion. At the time were were D1. Both were 15 play players. Both were starters in D3 and happy as pigs in slop. They both thanked me personally.

When I coached a D3 team for two season I did the same thing in reverse with 4 of our best players. Suggested they go into the Draft and request D1.

The League struggles with player placements when it comes to the larger Orgs so I do my own due diligence. If I coached in a small Org I couldn't do this because there would be no other teams to go to in the Draft.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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As to camps being good recruiting grounds-

A gold mine. But only for players that have never played before and the camps are loaded with these types.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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I know when his team finished under .500 a couple of years back when competing in the "A" Division- he had a goal to infuse talent and did and the team improved

OK...back to your post.

Our team did not finish below .500....that never happened over their entire run....the season you are referring to fit your silly narratives was the off season we had over half our team leave for other Sports when my son moved to Hayseed Wisconsin.

We added 15 new players that off season....half recruits....half blind draft.

Got lucky because 13 of those players were keepers. Two were team jumpers that lasted one season. Oddly 3 of those kids that left for LAX came back the next season.

The reason I recruit heavily is I push for really high numbers but being in a large Org I am limited by how many I can roster by Rule so I dont create a super team. I am always pushing for 30 but typically settle for 25.

Please print out all of my responses, frame them and put them on your office wall off future reference. Then you wont upset Lar in the future when you reference him out of the blue for some bullchit you have in your head. Me....I dont give a hoot what you say or think but Lar does because he is the honorable one.

Best to just leave him out of our little cat and mouse games.  8) He's no fun anyway. Too sensitive.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Posts: 23171
 

When we went to solely the mass recruiting- scarcity model- things really took off. And it was a lot more fun- less issues.

The only time I can mass recruit is right now when I am taking on a brand new 2nd grade team. I can bring in 20-25  players if I want. Thereafter I can only recruit up to a certain number which is roughly 3-5 per year. It all depends on how many leave the team and how the other roster numbers in my age group within the Org looks. Remember...Im not allowed to create a super team because the smaller Orgs cant do that.

In the larger Orgs that field multiple teams in an age group....all roster sizes must be within 15% of one another. My teams always have the most players so as I get to know the other coaches in my age group I have to convince them of the value of higher numbers. That takes some time.

For example....this past Fall I coached the 8th graders. My Org had 6 teams in this age group with teams in all 3 Division. Over the years I was able to work on them to take 25 or so each season. If not they would have all limped along as 8th graders with 18 and the Org would have created yet another team to take up the slack. All of the teams in the 8th grade Division in my Org made the playoffs because they listened to me and rolled thru their seasons with some good depth.

Although....my Puppet Header almost blew it in 2016 but it worked out. I was on the road for the Draft and he had never worked one before. They accidentally voted in a new team rather than going to 30 players per team. I remember driving thru Lincoln at the time screaming at him on the phone to the point I was spitting.

Its a GIANT numbers game for me starting at about the 4th grade level. Next year with the 2nd graders....whatever works is fine.....then we start roster building from there via legal recruiting for the next 6 years.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

Gumby and Mike- no need to get your panties in a bind

My point was IF you are selective about recruiting- it has been my experience that this can cause problems-

My experiences have been the exact opposite and my recruiting process is highly selective except when Gumby convinces me to take in one of his puppies.  🙂

He's like an Animal Shelter and why he is so upset over this conversation.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17889
 

we start roster building from there via legal recruiting for the next 6 years.

That's it, in a nutshell.  Regardless of how you build your team, if it's by the rules and morally sound, then no one should object.  More specifically, every youth league has it's own set of rules and particulars that you need to pay mind to.  Even Pop Warner conferences build teams differently from one another.  Some conferences have criteria for each division, other conferences have no criteria at all.  With what is and isn't allowed being so different from rec to rec and state to state, comparing ways of operation is like comparing apples to doorknobs.  And if a conference allows its teams to recruit, then you'd be dumb not to.  And for anyone who thinks recruiting is a dirty word, it's only dirty when it's illegal and even then you'd have to specify what defines "recruiting."

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 7679
Topic starter  

OK...back to your post.

Our team did not finish below .500....that never happened over their entire run....the season you are referring to fit your silly narratives was the off season we had over half our team leave for other Sports when my son moved to Hayseed Wisconsin.

We added 15 new players that off season....half recruits....half blind draft.

Got lucky because 13 of those players were keepers. Two were team jumpers that lasted one season. Oddly 3 of those kids that left for LAX came back the next season.

The reason I recruit heavily is I push for really high numbers but being in a large Org I am limited by how many I can roster by Rule so I dont create a super team. I am always pushing for 30 but typically settle for 25.

Mike

Correct me where I made the mistake
I thought when you guys moved from A to B- you had a season where you went 5-5 and lost in round 1 of the playoffs to go 5-6?
Then you lost about half your kids after that season and moved back down to B
If that is wrong- I apologize, I thought that is how it worked out for you with your last team

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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