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Hands Blocking vs Shoulder Blocking

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gumby_in_co
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Mega splits and hands blocking. I've used it when we were the biggest o-line in the league and when we were the smallest o-line in the league. When we struggle, widening the splits works way more often for us than squeezing them in. If it were up to me, I'd never reduce the splits. It's easy for Mahonz to get triggered and bunch them in together and he's the boss. When he does that, I know we're in for a long day.

Yes, we get called for holding quite a bit. Oddly, not so much with our 2nd/3rd graders. The last two seasons, when we were called for holding, it was a back and I take no responsibility for what those pretty boys do when left to their own designs. With the older kids, we take a good number of blocking in the back penalties, but to be fair, linebackers turn their backs to us in the open field and refs are refs. If we have an older kid holding, he's almost always on the edge, so if we know a kid has a predisposition for holding, we move him to guard. For us, holding is almost always a result of lazy feet and/or failing to maintain balance.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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But it needs to be every day, and even then they forget in the instant.  So what's wrong with having a technique that reinforces it mechanically?

Haven't we all seen, "You just repped that 5 minutes ago correctly!  Why is it wrong now?"  That's why I'm always looking for ways to make it easier.

Bob, the last sentence in my post says that it's an every day drill.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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Interesting that coaches who teach hands blocking are so accepting of the fact that they get called for holding.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Interesting that coaches who teach hands blocking are so accepting of the fact that they get called for holding.

--Dave

There's a local team that we just can't seem to get past. They are UBSW and teach shoulder blocking. Besides their FB who employs a "crown of the helmet" technique, they are shoulder blocking team. If you beat their blockers into the backfield, they use the Hawk Tackling method. Every team we go up against holds when they get beat, whether it's hands, flippers or shoulders.

2 Springs ago, I had an existential crisis. My linemen got flagged 17 times in 1 game for holding and/or blocks in the back. Mahonz was breathing fire at me at halftime. We won 40-0, but I went home with a hundred ideas about how to fix it. I was actually about to call you to learn X-man blocking for you. When I got home, Mahonz called me and apologized. There were no holds on film.

So does a hands fit tend to get flagged more than a shoulder block? If it is a legal, proper fit, then why does it matter? As long as they don't flag the double leg take downs, I think it doesn't matter. Should I change what works for me because refs can't do their jobs without bias? I'm not going to.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Bob, the last sentence in my post says that it's an every day drill.

Why did you think I quoted you on that?  That brings out a weakness: the fact that it needs to be drilled every session.  I could see your thinking I'd missed what you wrote had I not underlined the word "needs".  I want to reduce our needs, not increase them.


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Bob Goodman
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So does a hands fit tend to get flagged more than a shoulder block?

It may depend on whether the block is straight on or at an angle.  I'm trying to remember whether you took up Michael's technique of turning everything into an "on" block.

What I've seen in our games is that if there's a block on the edge by a blocker who comes from inside, whether they use hands or shoulder, there's a danger that what starts out looking like a good, clean block looks like holding once the opponent starts sliding off to the outside and the blocker lunges -- sometimes by losing his balance.  Then the opponent's starting to get separation and the blocker reaches with his outside arm.  Sometimes the opponent is already going down and it looks like a tackle, and other times the opponent is off balance and was effectively blocked anyway, and then still other times are the only times it makes a difference.

We have 3-man officiating crews in our games, and it tends to be a wing official flagging for hands.


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CoachDP
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Should I change what works for me because refs can't do their jobs without bias? I'm not going to.

We don't shoeshine our Tight End anymore because we got flagged for it.  We were legal.  We were inside the FBZ.  Of course refs can't do their job properly.  Of course they're incompetent.  But they can also flag you to death.  I wised up.  I can't change their incompetence, but I can avoid getting flagged.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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We don't shoeshine our Tight End anymore because we got flagged for it.  We were legal.  We were inside the FBZ.  Of course refs can't do their job properly.  Of course they're incompetent.  But they can also flag you to death.  I wised up.  I can't change their incompetence, but I can avoid getting flagged.

--Dave

I respect that, but you'll have to trust me that shoulder or flipper blocking is death with mega splits. We still have kids who occasionally insist on shoulder or flipper blocking and they consistently get beat when they do that. I now believe that parents have been undermining us based on a conversation I had at the banquet.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
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It may depend on whether the block is straight on or at an angle.  I'm trying to remember whether you took up Michael's technique of turning everything into an "on" block.

What I've seen in our games is that if there's a block on the edge by a blocker who comes from inside, whether they use hands or shoulder, there's a danger that what starts out looking like a good, clean block looks like holding once the opponent starts sliding off to the outside and the blocker lunges -- sometimes by losing his balance.  Then the opponent's starting to get separation and the blocker reaches with his outside arm.  Sometimes the opponent is already going down and it looks like a tackle, and other times the opponent is off balance and was effectively blocked anyway, and then still other times are the only times it makes a difference.

We have 3-man officiating crews in our games, and it tends to be a wing official flagging for hands.

With our current team, I think all holding calls this season were by backs. When I catch little guys holding, it is legit, but would have happened no matter what fit they were taught. They are competitive by nature and when they get beat, they grab and/or tackle.

With the older team, it tended to be our tackles and TEs. Whoever was blocking the edge would overextend, reach and hold. We would get calls for blocks in the back when we climbed to the 2nd level. Our linemen tend to shoulder block at the 2nd level because they are trying to knock the piss out of a linebacker. I don't think I ever got upset for an OLM taking a block in the back penalty on a LB, especially after I watched film.

We had one female side judge who flagged us numerous times. As he was about to be blocked, one particular LB was doing a spin move 5 yards off the LOS. She flagged us for that. The white hat had a private conversation with her and the flags magically stopped.

Another game, we had a linebacker who would literally turn around and back into our TE. The white hat warned him that he'd flag him for unsportsmanlike if he kept it up.

But yes, I agree with you, we want an "on" block an we want our shoulders square , ideally. In reality, we sometimes have to cover a lot of ground to get to our block, especially when we are speed blocking and a lineman may have to block a guy head up on his buddy. The little guys have been very good with their fits (elbows in belly buttons) compared to the older players, aside from the occasional shoulder or flipper block.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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spidermac
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Interesting that coaches who teach hands blocking are so accepting of the fact that they get called for holding.

--Dave

Didn't say that, said that I accept it as part of the process of getting them there 🙂 Just like teaching them anything else, they are going to make mistakes when they are in the front end of the process...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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CoachDP
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Didn't say that, said that I accept it as part of the process of getting them there

Okay, but to me that's the same.  Because we don't have to endure that as part of the teach.  Because it isn't part of the teach.

-Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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spidermac
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Okay, but to me that's the same.  Because we don't have to endure that as part of the teach.  Because it isn't part of the teach.

-Dave

Okay, but as part of your teach, you have different challenges...as we all know, many different ways to play the game and to teach what needs to get done...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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CoachDP
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Okay, but as part of your teach, you have different challenges.

Yes Chris, but our challenges are the good kind.  lol 😉

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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spidermac
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I dunno, man....it's like being "the really physical Girl Scout."  😉

--Dave

Physical hands blocking girl scouts 😛

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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CoachDP
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And #9's hands are outside the frame.  That's a hold.  😛

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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