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Wing-n-It
(@robert)
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November 1, 2019 6:37 am  

  If you have any tips on silent count please add. 

Silently go to the ref before the game and tell them you use the words "Motion" "Go" "Shift" in your cadence. Tell them you had a problem with them yelling motion through out your cadence and it confused your offensive line trying to listen for your QBs cadence.
You should not have to adjust and do something completely different in a championship game.

I really don't see why this is that hard to rectify. Its been done, I have seen it done.

Or you can change what you have been doing all year just because if this one team and possibly confuse your players as to why your changing what you do at this point.
Having the refs make them stop them from what they did will effect them yes or no?

If you think that the other team would be effected by the refs stopping them and making them make a change on game day, then why do you think you should change what you do and it wont effect your team?

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


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bxdefense
(@bxdefense)
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November 1, 2019 8:24 am  

They all yell Motion as loud as they can over and over continuously during motion.  Going to try silent snap count in practice tonight.  We play same team in championship on Sunday.    If you have any tips on silent count please add.  I have my center looking back in shotgun QB will flinch hands and center snaps.  Sucks that Oline will have to go on ball movement.  Not sure I can teach this to 5th graders with only two practices left.  Either that or we don’t use motion and try to pound it out with straight power and wedge.

It might be too late but just bring a speaker to practice and blast music during the motion so they are used to it. If the only thing they have to stop your plays is a gimmick, don't change a thing.

If you are adamant about going on a silent count, recess your o-line to the heels of the center. This will give them a better line of sight to react to the snap.

You can also add some orbit motions just to mess with the other team. Motion a wideout towards the ball and have him go back, reset then quick count.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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November 1, 2019 9:23 am  

You know which rule it is?

9-5-1(d) in Fed
7-1-5(a)5 in NCAA

The reason they wound up in different places was that Fed groups acts of unsportsmanlike conduct together, and made this a case of that, while NCAA kept it as delay of game and put it under requirements for the snap.  But they both still use the word "disconcert", which seems to cover cases of drowning out as well as simulation.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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November 1, 2019 9:32 am  

They all yell Motion as loud as they can over and over continuously during motion.

If you've already demonstrated that, then I don't know whether my idea of chopping feet would make it any clearer to the ref that they're trying to disconcert you rather than legitimately signaling themselves -- but it might.  I think you should try it on your first play from scrimmage, to see if you can get that call from the referee, and if he doesn't call it, then call time out (rather than chancing mis-timing the snap) and abandon motion for the rest of the game, unless you want to use it with a "no play" or just to shift.


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Wing-n-It
(@robert)
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November 1, 2019 11:13 am  

call time out

  ???

and abandon motion for the rest of the game,

??? ::) >:( 🙁

If you are going to allow the defense to dictate what you do or what you CAN do then you have lost. Just don't show up.

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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November 1, 2019 1:53 pm  

9-5-1(d) in Fed
7-1-5(a)5 in NCAA

The reason they wound up in different places was that Fed groups acts of unsportsmanlike conduct together, and made this a case of that, while NCAA kept it as delay of game and put it under requirements for the snap.  But they both still use the word "disconcert", which seems to cover cases of drowning out as well as simulation.

Shawn,

I’d use the rule Bob has cited here. Obviously have a contingency plan. But like I said, this was enforced on my defense this season.

Obviously have a contingency. I talked to my friend who’s a HS ref & he didn’t think using MOTION as your snap count would fly, but might be worth a try.

I do remember it happening to us one year. I complained & the refs made them stop yelling it.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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DKTurtle
(@dkturtle)
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November 1, 2019 4:48 pm  

Counting on refs to flag a defense for yelling "motion" seems like a terrible plan. Practice it. There is no way a defense should be able to drown out the cadence all together. Practice motion with the rest of your team and coaches yelling motion on the defensive side of the ball. QB has to be loud enough and the rest of the offense has to be able to pick his voice out. Your team was unprepared for the defense to make that much noise last time. Don't count on the refs, make sure they are prepared this time.

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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November 1, 2019 6:52 pm  

  ???

??? ::) >:( 🙁

If you are going to allow the defense to dictate what you do or what you CAN do then you have lost. Just don't show up.

It's if you're going to have officials who enable your opponents to cheat....

If the rules are such that if you go in motion, the other team's allowed to deprive you of an audible snap count, you play with the rules you got.

Or you could do like deaf teams do and use a bass drum for the cadence.  Might not work for your players to learn to feel the chest thump in as short a time as a team of players who are all deaf.


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shawnm
(@shawnm)
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November 1, 2019 8:22 pm  

Counting on refs to flag a defense for yelling "motion" seems like a terrible plan. Practice it. There is no way a defense should be able to drown out the cadence all together. Practice motion with the rest of your team and coaches yelling motion on the defensive side of the ball. QB has to be loud enough and the rest of the offense has to be able to pick his voice out. Your team was unprepared for the defense to make that much noise last time. Don't count on the refs, make sure they are prepared this time.

Agree, I can't rely on the referees interpretation of the rules.  I'll look up the rule and talk to the refs before the game about their attempts to cause false starts but I'm guessing it will fall on deaf ears.    We are playing the league president's team and doubt they are going to see it our way.  We practiced a bunch tonight with coaches screaming during motion, we are better but not perfect.  We'll work on it more tomorrow.    Here is a youtube link to our first of 9 false starts during this game.


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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November 2, 2019 7:13 am  

Agree, I can't rely on the referees interpretation of the rules.  I'll look up the rule and talk to the refs before the game about their attempts to cause false starts but I'm guessing it will fall on deaf ears.    We are playing the league president's team and doubt they are going to see it our way.  We practiced a bunch tonight with coaches screaming during motion, we are better but not perfect.  We'll work on it more tomorrow.    Here is a youtube link to our first of 9 false starts during this game.

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Ya, they’re clearly trying to get you to jump. I’d show the refs the video pregame & the rule.

And nobody said to count on the refs. We all suggested contingency plans. But the refs enforcing the rules shouldn’t be that far fetched. Since it’s a title game, i’d hope you’d have a good crew. Anyone w/ any sort of common sense can see what their intent is.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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November 2, 2019 7:43 am  

But the refs enforcing the rules shouldn’t be that far fetched.

You’re kidding, right?

—Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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November 2, 2019 8:27 am  

You’re kidding, right?

—Dave

Ha ha. I hear ya. But whenever i’ve shown the rule & presented video, i’ve had success getting the refs to do their job. You gotta be very respectful. Show them well before the game if possible. But it’s always worked for me. If you try to do it during the game you don’t stand a chance.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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DKTurtle
(@dkturtle)
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November 2, 2019 2:41 pm  

Ya, they’re clearly trying to get you to jump. I’d show the refs the video pregame & the rule.

And nobody said to count on the refs. We all suggested contingency plans. But the refs enforcing the rules shouldn’t be that far fetched. Since it’s a title game, i’d hope you’d have a good crew. Anyone w/ any sort of common sense can see what their intent is.

Refs usually won't enforce rules that you game. No one uses 'motion' as part of their cadence. By using it or telling the refs that you use it, you are trying to game the rules in a way to penalize the defense for making a common defensive call. Most refs won't give you that and frankly I don't think they should. Prepare for the noise, I'll be shocked if you are able to draw that penalty.

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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shawnm
(@shawnm)
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November 2, 2019 3:04 pm  

Working it in practice today.  Sharp loud defensive sounds during the motion caused our linemen to jump almost every time.  If the refs don't enforce, we probably won't be able to run motion plays. 


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COACH JC
(@winged)
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November 2, 2019 9:06 pm  

Working it in practice today.  Sharp loud defensive sounds during the motion caused our linemen to jump almost every time.  If the refs don't enforce, we probably won't be able to run motion plays.

Course not. There’s a reason the rule exists. It’s damn near impossible not to jump when the D is doing a hard count and your players have been taught to go on sound.

If the refs don’t enforce it, i’d fight fire w/ fire. Make a freaking mockery of the game until the refs fix it. You could do the same thing they are, even w/o motion. Have your MLB scream WATCH 22! in a hard count tone. TE RIGHT! COBRA BLITZ!

You could say whatever you want as long as it has something to do w/ your defense. Bet the refs would put an end to it on both sides.

It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!


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