Posted by: @jtrent64

how do most of you run the toss?

 

Jason

 

Our toss on Power and on Sweep was similar and it was a backside toss.  On both plays, our QB served as the lead blocker.  I hated running Rocket Toss as the QB quickly gives up the football to the play side and otherwise serves no purpose.  Any play that gives us only 10 players on offense is a shorthanded play and I don't like shorthanded plays.  

--Dave

Posted by: @jtrent64

Hi, we are 5th grade and run I formation.  Last year we rean off tackle probably 75% of our plays, and tried to work in Toss sweep.  While running sweep, I was coaching the TB to get outside fast and the QB to open plays side, step towards where he was going to toss and throw underhand with the second step.  We had trouble accurately getting the ball pitched out to the TB.

Reasoning I did it this way was to get the TB outside to the boundary as quick as possible. 

I have been looking at others run this play and it seems like most people open backside and reverse pivot the QB to pitch the ball.  Does this let the QB get a little more power to his toss?

how do most of you run the toss?

 

Jason

 

Reverse pivot helps with velocity and accuracy. As soon as he snaps around, he gets a longer look at the TB before the toss. As DP pointed out, QB can lead block on a reverse pivot as well. If you have a FB, that's another blocker. Opening playside, you have the risk of hitting the FB with the ball. Doesn't happen on a reverse pivot. Send the backside WB in motion, and you have a greater chance of catching the defense short on numbers.

Posted by: @jtrent64

Hi, we are 5th grade and run I formation.  Last year we rean off tackle probably 75% of our plays, and tried to work in Toss sweep.  While running sweep, I was coaching the TB to get outside fast and the QB to open plays side, step towards where he was going to toss and throw underhand with the second step.  We had trouble accurately getting the ball pitched out to the TB.

Reasoning I did it this way was to get the TB outside to the boundary as quick as possible. 

I have been looking at others run this play and it seems like most people open backside and reverse pivot the QB to pitch the ball.  Does this let the QB get a little more power to his toss?

It does, but is lack of oomph on the throw a problem for you?  More people have problems with accuracy or high lobbed tosses, and in such cases I think reverse pivoting could only make it worse.

Both when I coached sidesaddle T and I formation, our TB toss was a straight opening 2-hand chest pass.  I recall seeing two I formation teams go at it in our club-league, and one used an underhand pass and got one intercepted, a pick-six, practically laughing at them for that because they used the chest pass themselves.

However, if you really do want to whip the ball out there, the form for doing so underhand is simple, though like most things in football, not necessarily easy.  Don't try for spiral, and don't waste effort trying to get the lead foot to point where the ball's going.  QB has to quickly dig the ball out from the snapper with a pendulum motion while pushing off the back foot and stepping sideways toward the target point.  The ball goes across the passer's body.  It's very much like the form of a baseball batter putting undercut on the ball while sliding the in-field foot forward; put a ball in his hands instead of a bat and you almost have it.

Do not try to copy the form of a scrum-half passing the ball from the base of a set scrum.  That's not adapted to a quarterback's circumstances.

Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Posted by: @jtrent64

Hi, we are 5th grade and run I formation.  Last year we rean off tackle probably 75% of our plays, and tried to work in Toss sweep.  While running sweep, I was coaching the TB to get outside fast and the QB to open plays side, step towards where he was going to toss and throw underhand with the second step.  We had trouble accurately getting the ball pitched out to the TB.

Reasoning I did it this way was to get the TB outside to the boundary as quick as possible. 

I have been looking at others run this play and it seems like most people open backside and reverse pivot the QB to pitch the ball.  Does this let the QB get a little more power to his toss?

how do most of you run the toss?

 

Jason

 

Reverse pivot helps with velocity and accuracy. As soon as he snaps around, he gets a longer look at the TB before the toss.

But a shorter look in overall time!  If the passer opens to play side, he can take as long a look as he needs.  Besides, if you really want to get the TB outside fast, you shouldn't have the QB sighting him and adjusting to his speed.  Rather, you should be practicing with a low cone as aiming point and making the TB get where he needs to to catch it.

Still, I question the whole philosophy of trying to speed the TB outside as the way to run sweep.  The way to run a no-motion quick pitch is by either pulling the T around the TE, releasing immediately to 2nd level, or whatever you can do to hook the DE and forget about any blocking help from inside until the runner gets downfield.  Rocket?  Don't even try for that much, just one block on the edge if you can even get that.  Toss sweep?  Let it develop with your blocking coming from inside; your TB may even have to bucket step to help the timing.