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morris
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Anyone every taken the SW approach in their offense?  What I mean is pretty much running plays in only one direction.

Right
Power
Sweep

Left
Counter
Trap

And then just dress it up with different backfield actions?  I know that there is a little bit more variety than the above but the base is typically the above.  People often say get those plays down perfect before you start branching into some of the other stuff.  I know Auburn only really runs plays in certain directions but of course they also run combo plays, option/read, run at a fast tempo and are a college team.

So anyone taken this approach?


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Bob Goodman
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By "plays in only one direction" do you mean that their plays aren't mirrored (without flipping the formation)?  Or do you mean the plays taken all together hit mostly to one side of the formation?

Wing T has plays that are mostly not mirrored, but taken all together the plays hit both sides about equally.  The offense I want to install would have some plays mirrored but other plays not, and hit both sides about equally but in different ways.

It looks from the examples you give that you mean the 1st meaning, i.e. the individual plays aren't mirrored unless you flip the formation.  Any formation that's not symmetric would have this characteristic, as you could not easily run the same play to one side as to the other.

A team might even have a formation that looks symmetric, but, because of the particular players they have on the left & right, still not want to run all the same plays both directions.  There are Markham-style double wing teams that do that, but in their case I wonder why they stay in double wing, rather than an unbalanced formation that takes advantage of what they're giving away anyway.  Other formations might have a dive back on one side and a quicker runner on the other.


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mahonz
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Anyone every taken the SW approach in their offense?  What I mean is pretty much running plays in only one direction.

Right
Power
Sweep

Left
Counter
Trap

And then just dress it up with different backfield actions?  I know that there is a little bit more variety than the above but the base is typically the above.  People often say get those plays down perfect before you start branching into some of the other stuff.  I know Auburn only really runs plays in certain directions but of course they also run combo plays, option/read, run at a fast tempo and are a college team.

So anyone taken this approach?

J

When I ran the full compliment SW.... being "one way" is one of the things I didn't like so we flipped formations a lot. Still do with the Beast but that isn't our base. We have coached against quite a few SW O's the last 10 years or so and being "one way" is the one thing I can at least count on especially if they are unbalanced.

Why do you want to do this?

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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morris
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I flip my line so we do run things in both directions. I know some people who do it. The idea is you can get really good at a small amount of things because you're not teaching it both ways. Many people do it with part of offense like they only run boot in one direction.


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mahonz
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I flip my line so we do run things in both directions. I know some people who do it. The idea is you can get really good at a small amount of things because you're not teaching it both ways. Many people do it with part of offense like they only run boot in one direction.

J

I am always suspicious of getting really good at a small amount of things because eventually someone is going to have my number.

I can see things like booting in one direction only or favoring quick slants in one direction or running option in one direction....but that is more of a QB being right or left handed thing IMHO.

Being "one way" is the one thing I really dont get about the UBSW....but it certainly works. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Coach Dowling
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We've run the UBSW the last two seasons.  This year I'm strongly considering the Power "I".


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Bob Goodman
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I think the two of you may be using the phrase "one way" two ways.  There's the "one way" where a play goes in only 1 direction and you don't flip the formation, so it's always the same direction, left or right.  Then there's the "one way" where a play goes only 1 direction in relationship to the formation, and you flip the formation so the play can go both left & right, but once you're in the formation the direction the play can go is fixed.

I can see things like booting in one direction only or favoring quick slants in one direction or running option in one direction....but that is more of a QB being right or left handed thing IMHO.

Isn't that a good reason, though?  Sometimes it's not worth having the same play in both directions if the handedness of the QB makes one much easier than the other.  You can have a different play going the other way that's easier for him to execute than the same play mirrored.


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morris
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I like to be good at a small amount of things.  Now when I say small its still a pretty typical size offense.  Well I say that but we can line up in well over 100 different formations and still run our stuff just fine.  I pretty much coach 2 teams at the exact same time.  Everyone I coach against is in the same boat so I am always looking for a way to maximize our time and get the biggest return on investment. 


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davecisar
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Tim Murphy and I did a clinic last Spring in Wisconsin

He is now a SIngle WInger more or less and he talked a lot about running power one way and counter the other.
He didn't flip his formation- stayed strong right- with the 2013 team film he was showing then.
I think he engineered another big turnaround and scored a bunch of points this year, I think they won it all, lost 1 game?

Ive never been a big fan of flipping, Ive done it
The best coached teams- you gain little to nothing from flipping, they are flipping with you
The poorly coached teams- you are going to beat them anyways

I like for kids on the Oline to be extraordinarily good at a few things
Ive found when they play much more aggressively when they don't flip than when they do, play faster

In Omaha, year 1 of the Single Wing standardization
All 16 of our teams are doing really well- all running the same thing
All but 1 team in top 25% of league in scoring
That 1 team was team that practiced the furthest away about 2 miles from us.
They were a B team with a lot of talent- luck of the draw zip code deal, more talent than our other B teams
Went to one of their games, next to last one- they were flipping and NOT scoring many points- lowest in the program and with the best back

We have very few blocking schemes that can be applied to lots of different plays, the lineman get good at those
As to the backs- once they learn a backfield action, then we just block it different depending on who gets the ball- so while we may in all reality have 35 plays, they are really just 5-6 AND we have lots of simple little formation and blocking tags we can add in when "someone has our number"

Ive done it, and Im not a fan
We may flip a play or 2 near the end of the season
Tournaments- that's where flipping works better- where teams don't know us

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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CoachCraig
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i use cisars methods with pistol.

"Whether you think you can, or cannot, you're probably right."


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morris
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Topic starter  

Now so everyone is clear I am not talking about running the UBSW but I'm just talking offense in general. So let's say offset I where you only ran power right and counter left. It's Dave's stuff with the SW that got me wondering about it.


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CoachCraig
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      OOXOOO                    O
    2                4
            1
            3

pistol look formation above.  with shift below.

      OOXOOO                    O
                    4
            1  3
            2

Tell me you cant run daves sainted 6 from this?

"Whether you think you can, or cannot, you're probably right."


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mahonz
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Tim Murphy and I did a clinic last Spring in Wisconsin

He is now a SIngle WInger more or less and he talked a lot about running power one way and counter the other.
He didn't flip his formation- stayed strong right- with the 2013 team film he was showing then.
I think he engineered another big turnaround and scored a bunch of points this year, I think they won it all, lost 1 game?

Ive never been a big fan of flipping, Ive done it
The best coached teams- you gain little to nothing from flipping, they are flipping with you
The poorly coached teams- you are going to beat them anyways

I like for kids on the Oline to be extraordinarily good at a few things
Ive found when they play much more aggressively when they don't flip than when they do, play faster

In Omaha, year 1 of the Single Wing standardization
All 16 of our teams are doing really well- all running the same thing
All but 1 team in top 25% of league in scoring
That 1 team was team that practiced the furthest away about 2 miles from us.
They were a B team with a lot of talent- luck of the draw zip code deal, more talent than our other B teams
Went to one of their games, next to last one- they were flipping and NOT scoring many points- lowest in the program and with the best back

We have very few blocking schemes that can be applied to lots of different plays, the lineman get good at those
As to the backs- once they learn a backfield action, then we just block it different depending on who gets the ball- so while we may in all reality have 35 plays, they are really just 5-6 AND we have lots of simple little formation and blocking tags we can add in when "someone has our number"

Ive done it, and Im not a fan
We may flip a play or 2 near the end of the season
Tournaments- that's where flipping works better- where teams don't know us

Dave

I would think the opposite is true...flip vs common opponents...don't vs uncommon opponents because you really wouldn't need too.

I also disagree that the best teams will flip with you.The best youth teams play a boundary CB and a field CB. The best  youth teams play a boundary OLB and a field OLB. The best youth teams play a field DE and a boundary DE so never flipping plays into their hands. Your opponent would have to be pretty talented to avoid putting speed on the wide side of the field every play...as things progress of course. With the little dudes I dont think this is important....all they do is forget which side to line up on anyway .  Morris doesn't coach little dudes.

If you are a one way team like the UBSW there are times when you MUST run 43 reverse, for example simply to change hash marks. That is what I dont like about being "one way".....now you MUST run a play just to change the hash at times.

18 sweep is a great play to the field side....maybe not that great to the boundary side, for example. Easier to spill and kill to the boundary side.

Thats what I mean by being suspicious at getting good at a small amount of things....not the blocking.....the number of plays. If you flip you can run the entire playbook and use the field to your advantage.

I dont necessarily like flip flopping the OL wholesale.... I always try to use a slide instead if unbalanced....but the TE's / SE's and Backs....heck yes.... flip flop.

Reminds me when I started flip flopping running the UBSW spin series. It was pretty hilarious at first....guys spinning every which a way. They dialed in pretty quick. These were MS level kids that went back to back to back Champs.... so smarter than little dudes and certainly a talented group.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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PSLCOACHROB
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UBSW is one sided only if you make it. There are more plays to the short side than 43 in Dave's offense and that is only a small part of sw football. Dr Keuffel had a bunch of plays to the short side.


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jrk5150
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Tim Murphy and I did a clinic last Spring in Wisconsin

CA Tim Murphy, the DW guy?  I believe there are two of them kicking around the HS ranks that are pretty well known.  One is from WI or somewhere like that.


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