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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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That's one of the big advantages of 2-point is that it doesn't slow players with a weak core the way the 3 or 4-point stance will.  And at youth, almost everyone has a weak core.  In the Double Wing, I think the 2-point helps us to pull quicker, fit into Wedge blocking faster, already sets us in pass pro and hides our Fullback better than a 3-point.  We are using a 3-point this season, BTW.  lol

--Dave

I have been teaching 3 point and using 2 point for several years.  We practice in drills with the focus on 3 point stance for the line so that kids can work on their core strength, ball get off and maintaining leverage.  I do this for both offensive and defensive drills.  Then, we get to the offensive line work with the backs also involved, I allow players to go into 2 point stance if they feel more comfortable (usually if I tell them to). 

I would like them to know both 2 and 3 point stances and proper technique by the time that they move on up.  While younger kids will be better off with 2 point in many instances, I still want them working on 3 point and improving their core strength.


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Everything about this is great, except that we're putting a lot of emphasis on making contact with the first step. Probably fine for shoulder blocking, but not what I want for hands blocking.

If each kid is already a step off it would take 2 steps to make contact.

This isnt a blocking drill or a technique drill its a get off the ball, fast, low ... but not every needs that i guess

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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PioneerCoach
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That's one of the big advantages of 2-point is that it doesn't slow players with a weak core the way the 3 or 4-point stance will.  And at youth, almost everyone has a weak core.  In the Double Wing, I think the 2-point helps us to pull quicker, fit into Wedge blocking faster, already sets us in pass pro and hides our Fullback better than a 3-point.  We are using a 3-point this season, BTW.  lol

--Dave

Can I ask why?

"February: I want to run triple option from the single wing, but with a pass option, too. Should the end run a post or a corner?
September: Any advice on how to get my center to snap it properly?"


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Last night at the League meeting the RV Coach did a 30 minute presentation on OL stance and footwork and how they teach get off and all.

Got me thinking....what are all these HS coaches going to do with our kids when they show up with a mean steak a mile wide and not ONE of them knows what a 3 point stance is.

We will have to watch....maybe Pomona is in 2 points stances in a few years after Moll and Chris and Super Max and Ross show up  😛

Super Max begged me all Spring to let him go from 3 point. I finally gave in on the condition that he actually played better from 3. Stance sucked. Get off sucked. Privilege revoked.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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The only time 2 point was a problem that I can remember was back in 2nd grade. This was way before mega-wide splits. Our opponent had scouted us and worked on getting after us low and fast and it worked. This was not a problem with the 2 point stance. We had simply gotten lazy with our stance and get off and our opponent made it a point of emphasis that week. As I recall, we fixed it at half time.

With Mega Wide and a short, unpredictable cadence, get off isn't as important*. Our linemen have learned to adjust pad level if their guy is coming off low.

*I know this is football blasphemy. Unless you run mega wide, get off is extremely important.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Question about 2 pt stance, do you load weight on the 2nd step foot? One of the things I like to teach with 3pt was that you weren't taking a step with the first foot but pushing off with the 2nd. Pretty sure I saw that at a Glazier. I think it produces more power and speed and moved the center of gravity forward so I had them shift some of the weight off the first foot. My only real issue with the 2pt is that the center of gravity is different and I am not sure how much that slight difference effects the first two steps.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Can I ask why?

In high school, a weak core doesn't affect our players, the way it affects youth players. We are so much stronger in that area.

As for our team this year, our cadence is built into our 3-point stance and it adds to the pre-snap motion and movement we are doing on offense. 

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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Question about 2 pt stance, do you load weight on the 2nd step foot? One of the things I like to teach with 3pt was that you weren't taking a step with the first foot but pushing off with the 2nd. Pretty sure I saw that at a Glazier. I think it produces more power and speed and moved the center of gravity forward so I had them shift some of the weight off the first foot. My only real issue with the 2pt is that the center of gravity is different and I am not sure how much that slight difference effects the first two steps.

Rob, I think it depends on how deep of a squat their 2-point is.  Some teams get really low in their squat.  Others look like a group of Wide Receivers. We tried it with every variation we knew how, because we ran it for so long.  The deeper the squat, the more the footwork will resemble a 3-point stance.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Question about 2 pt stance, do you load weight on the 2nd step foot? One of the things I like to teach with 3pt was that you weren't taking a step with the first foot but pushing off with the 2nd. Pretty sure I saw that at a Glazier. I think it produces more power and speed and moved the center of gravity forward so I had them shift some of the weight off the first foot. My only real issue with the 2pt is that the center of gravity is different and I am not sure how much that slight difference effects the first two steps.

The real negative that I have come across is that its easier for the kids to false step out of the 2.

Its been 6 years now. Went to the 2 when the kids were really young only because it was simply easier to manage. It was a time thing so we could move on to other things since the kids knew nothing about football. Did they play too high....yes. Eventually as they got older we got them to play with a good pad level. 

I figured we'd go back to 3's in time. Never happened.

The reason was I actually set up a get off drill.....on air...vs a bag.....vs live opponent.

A 3 point drill and a 2 point drill side by side with all players rotating so it was fair. Multiple reps. It was the time I needed to steal away one preseason just to see.

The 2 point side kept winning. Plus I had seen a ton of Potter youth film and if a 2 point was good enough for him then it was good enough for me.

As far as the mechanics / science. No clue. Just convinced off my own eye tests.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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The real negative that I have come across is that its easier for the kids to false step out of the 2.

Its been 6 years now. Went to the 2 when the kids were really young only because it was simply easier to manage. It was a time thing so we could move on to other things since the kids knew nothing about football. Did they play too high....yes. Eventually as they got older we got them to play with a good pad level. 

I figured we'd go back to 3's in time. Never happened.

The reason was I actually set up a get off drill.....on air...vs a bag.....vs live opponent.

A 3 point drill and a 2 point drill side by side with all players rotating so it was fair. Multiple reps. It was the time I needed to steal away one preseason just to see.

The 2 point side kept winning. Plus I had seen a ton of Potter youth film and if a 2 point was good enough for him then it was good enough for me.

As far as the mechanics / science. No clue. Just convinced off my own eye tests.

Honestly, the mechanics/science of it don't mean crap to me. I want what works on grass. Things don't always work they way the should on grass as we all know. I think if I coach again I am going to move to the 2pt stance. I feel I can coach the 3pt effectively (if given the time, lately it seems that I haven't been) but it still needs constant correction with the little dudes. Since I refuse to be a header I would have to convince the guy in charge. I think a demonstration like you did would make people a believer. Once the kids have good core strength I believe in the 3pt stance. I just don't have the off season time to do mat drills and all that crap to get the line men where I would want them to be with core.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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We would still be using the 2-point with my high school team if we didn't tie the cadence to the movement in our 3-point stance.  For us, the 2-point allows us to fit into Wedge quicker, pull faster, keeps us in pass-pro without tipping the defense and hides our Fullback.  The dropped instep also turns our hips so it aims us in a better position for Wedge, pulling and downblocking.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
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Topic starter  

Got my first look at the new group yesterday. Technique is non-existent but there are some big strong aggressive kids to work with so I'm not complaining.

Started with Break Down stance and Balance from the attachment provided above. We were in the gym due to rain and some of the kids were in socks so I didn't get a great look at all of them but we made progress. Had to cut the balance portion short so kids wouldn't fall and hit their head on the gym floor. While it lasted I added an element of having the kids "bet" on who they thought would win the balance competition. They stood behind the kid they picked and if they were wrong at the end, they got push ups. Pretty simple but it got them engaged.

After the indy session we went to plays on air. The OC wants zero splits and had one scheme in mind (GUT fold on Belly) with everything else just block somebody. Lots of work to do there. First thing I recommended was to recess the line (finger tips on the center's shoelaces). Spent a lot of time fixing stances and first steps. I think I want to try to sell them on at least fist width splits. With the recess, the QB is really jammed in between the guards and I worry about feet getting stepped on but it didn't happen yesterday so maybe it's not a real problem and I'm just used to the 2 foot splits I like to use when I get my choice.

If people find this useful, I'll keep on with the updates. We should be on the grass and in pads tonight so it's full steam ahead.

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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Coach Brad
(@coachbradfromcanada)
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Got my first look at the new group yesterday. Technique is non-existent but there are some big strong aggressive kids to work with so I'm not complaining.

Started with Break Down stance and Balance from the attachment provided above. We were in the gym due to rain and some of the kids were in socks so I didn't get a great look at all of them but we made progress. Had to cut the balance portion short so kids wouldn't fall and hit their head on the gym floor. While it lasted I added an element of having the kids "bet" on who they thought would win the balance competition. They stood behind the kid they picked and if they were wrong at the end, they got push ups. Pretty simple but it got them engaged.

After the indy session we went to plays on air. The OC wants zero splits and had one scheme in mind (GUT fold on Belly) with everything else just block somebody. Lots of work to do there. First thing I recommended was to recess the line (finger tips on the center's shoelaces). Spent a lot of time fixing stances and first steps. I think I want to try to sell them on at least fist width splits. With the recess, the QB is really jammed in between the guards and I worry about feet getting stepped on but it didn't happen yesterday so maybe it's not a real problem and I'm just used to the 2 foot splits I like to use when I get my choice.

If people find this useful, I'll keep on with the updates. We should be on the grass and in pads tonight so it's full steam ahead.

What is the balance competition? Just holding their stance?

I have a couple kids that I am going to need to work into the Oline, but severely lack leg and core strength to get into and hold a proper stance. wondering what the best ways are to get them up to speed in that department.


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CoachMattC
(@coachmattc)
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Topic starter  

What is the balance competition? Just holding their stance?

I have a couple kids that I am going to need to work into the Oline, but severely lack leg and core strength to get into and hold a proper stance. wondering what the best ways are to get them up to speed in that department.

From the attachment:

Progression II (Balance): Have players face each other, assume the Break Down Stance and grab the shoulders of the player opposite them. On the coach’s command, one of the players, the defensive player, tries to get his opponent off balance by pushing, pulling and tipping him from side to side. This forces the offensive player to get low, get a wide base, and move his feet to keep his balance. Switch offensive and defensive players and continue the drill.

‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin


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Coach Brad
(@coachbradfromcanada)
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From the attachment:

I am intrigued. Is the defensive player allowed to move his feet, or is he simply pushing/pulling from a stationary position?


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