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Wishbone and SAB?

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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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It just seemed that there was a general consensus that SAB wouldn't work with Wishbone. 

SAB alone would be iffy. Someone from the old DW forum used to run DW plays out of wishbone and did very well. He pulled backside G and T though. Personally, I think that would be very hard to defend.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Honestly I used to run DW with Nothing more than Down and Trap.  Not Ideal but, for that period of time, it was the most effective we could be.  Big and Slow.

When I used the Wishbone Formation, I was specifically, Dive, Double Dive, Keep.  2 plays in addition were the Cross Buck and Midline (Keep).  We used BOB with 2 butts in the hole.  The one thing I will state is that we ran plays to both sides of the line. 

imho, given the short time most of us have in preseason practice, you have to use minimalist strategy and cannot labor over things that dont work. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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SAB alone would be iffy.

--^ This.

Someone from the old DW forum used to run DW plays out of wishbone and did very well.

--We still do.

Personally, I think that would be very hard to defend.

--Especially if you have Ends who like to run the ball.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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The cross block certainly makes sense if you are intent on running iso/blast against all fronts.  I don't believe that it is necessarily an easier teach. 

Some coaches think SAB is an easy teach.  I have tried teaching it 4 different times.  Once as an offensive line coach and my HC was determined to run it.  We made it work but it wasn't easy.  Once as HC and it went together great and we stayed with it the whole season.  The other 2 times, I gave up on it and went back to rule blocking early in the season.  Getting the whole play side firing off with the same timing and at the same angle without anyone chasing defenders is not easy.  The concept may be simple but the execution takes a lot of work unless you get lucky with a group of linemen who just get it.

I didn't mean to jump in this thread to argue which way was better.  It just seemed that there was a general consensus that SAB wouldn't work with Wishbone. 

If I was going to run a full house, QB under center offense with SAB blocking, I would run the Michigan Dead T.  I know from experience that it works with 7/8 year olds.

If I was running wishbone without option I would want to be able to run iso against any front. Just like in dw I want to be able to run power at any front. That's me though. No way I allow the defense to take away my base play with alignment. Of course there are different ways to still do what you do. For us, sab was very limitind so we used it as a power and counter scheme only. The ole block down and kick out.

By easy teach I mean as far as the kids knowing who to block. It easier than a regular 3 phase acronym. Nothing for thwm to figure out. I get what you are saying though. For the life if me I couldn't get tko to work. I gave up and went back to using MOMA, GOD, GOB, FBI and GDB in the schemes and we were off and runnung.

Isn't the dead t one if those super top secret offenses?


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bigshel
(@bigshel)
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We run iso to any front. Where we differ is that the POA can change based on the front. When we break the huddle, all the kids know is iso right or iso left. They don't know the poa until the PST identifies the bubble and makes a line call. As a result, one play call can hit A, B, C, or D gap.

Oh, and we will also X block a PS 2 and 4 tech (also by a line call). This was with 8 and 9 year olds.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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We run iso to any front. Where we differ is that the POA can change based on the front. When we break the huddle, all the kids know is iso right or iso left. They don't know the poa until the PST identifies the bubble and makes a line call. As a result, one play call can hit A, B, C, or D gap.

Oh, and we will also X block a PS 2 and 4 tech (also by a line call). This was with 8 and 9 year olds.

Of course. We had calls to make power work. But this was about having a new oline and not having confidence with what they can do. I would limit the amount of plays early on and use what I have always used. Grow as the season goes. Add new schemes, tags and calls as the season progresses. Work heavily on tech so those couple of early plays work well. I would never limit their potential by limiting what I am willing to teach. The limits are almost always set by time and how well the coach can teach.


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bigshel
(@bigshel)
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Of course. We had calls to make power work. But this was about having a new oline and not having confidence with what they can do. I would limit the amount of plays early on and use what I have always used. Grow as the season goes. Add new schemes, tags and calls as the season progresses. Work heavily on tech so those couple of early plays work well. I would never limit their potential by limiting what I am willing to teach. The limits are almost always set by time and how well the coach can teach.

I agree, and we did add tags as the season went on. But if you can teach them how to recognize where the PS bubble is in the beginning, then all you have to teach is downblock (inside the bubble) or fan (outside the bubble). Calande used to call it "part the seas" I believe; and in the bone you've got 2 lead blockers.


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
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Isn't the dead t one if those super top secret offenses?

It’s not super top secret.  Maybe forgotten about every where but Michigan. 

The Olivet and Bay City playbooks are available online.

There’s a Power T forum dedicated to it.  I log in back in the winter and there had been no activity in months.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Must just be those T offenses in Texas.


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bigshel
(@bigshel)
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Must just be those T offenses in Texas.

Yeah, the Slot T Mafia will get you. BTW, whatever happened to paketterman? Haven't heard from him in a while.  :-


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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I ran an I scheme (not Option I) out of a wishbone. Worked great. Man blocking. Fullback Dive, Halfback Sweep, Quarterback Bootleg. Each in two directions. So three plays, or six, depending on how you count it. No passes.

So it's non-power Y.  Buck sweep series, except straight buck instead of trap, & no counter pivot.  But you could make it a power Y by just adding a lead play.


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Bob Goodman
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If I was running wishbone without option I would want to be able to run iso against any front. Just like in dw I want to be able to run power at any front. That's me though. No way I allow the defense to take away my base play with alignment.

How many players do they have on the field?

Even if you can't check out of a play and use MOMA with a lead back, how often will the defense get lucky by having a LB in the hole you call, and also DL in both gaps flanking it?


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