I was reading through the toss, and I ran into their double team concept. They use the Post and shoot (AKA post and drive) method of blocking. They have the center post while the guard shoots. Then they have the tackle post, while the end drives. The center makes the seven call if he sees an even front. This switches them from double teams to down blocking. They also use the seven call if they see blitzing.
The seven call got me thinking. Why should one player make the call for four players? It makes sense for him to make the call for the guard because the most dangerous hole for the center is the backside A gap. Since the center has the best view of the backside A gap, he should make the call, but what if this call causes the tackle and tight end to down block when a perfectly good double team is available? Why not let the center and guard work out who they want to block. Then have the tackle and tight end work out who they want to block.
The purpose of a double team is to block two players. First they block the person they're double teaming, and second they block the linebacker by moving a pile of bodies into the path they want to take. This naturally means that a double team must block the backside linebacker. So if the center and guard block the nose tackle, then we can't expect the middle linebacker to be affected. He simply has too much of an angle advantage, but we can expect a backside middle linebacker or an outside linebacker to be cut off. Likewise, the tackle and end's double team will block the middle line backer. So it is fair to say that the double team blocks two people, and those people are the defensive lineman and the backside line backer that is one position diagonal, towards the inside.
The purpose of the seven call is to more quickly be able to pick up a blitz or to block two down linemen. In the case of a 62, there are two nose guards. The center and guard will down block, and since the seven call applies to all members of the line, the tackle and end will also down block. This makes it likely that one of them will go for the defensive tackle and the other will go for the line backer. However, in many variations of the 62, especially at the youth level, there is no reason to down block it. They could easily double team the DT as they were planning before the seven call was made. So why not come up with some rules for how the duo of center/guard will choose to block 2 men and have similar rules for the tackle and end? This way you could have double teams at every opportunity, and the system would be self adjusting.
How could this be achieved? I think you could teach a concept. The over arching concept is that you're trying to block two defenders with two offensive lineman, and there are 3 scenarios. First is that you have an ideal double team block. A nose in a 1, 0, or 1 tech with no other defensive lineman around would be an ideal double team. Second, if the center sees a blitz, the ideal situation is that they pick up the blitz by splitting up their efforts. One person picks up the blitz, the other picks up the D lineman. Third is when the defense has two defensive lineman. Just block those lineman.
I think you could achieve this with calls. First you should expect a double team every time, so there is no need for a call. Second, they could call "Blitz" or "Hot" if they think a blitz is coming. Finally, they could call "down" if they think they need to down block two defensive linemen. It shouldn't matter if the defense picks up on what we're calling or what it means because if they play games and keep switching around, we can always switch back.
"7 Call" or not I'm very curious to know why you would seek to deploy a blocking scheme across the entire LOS for a Toss Sweep?
Plays like the Toss and Counter usually have a set of rules that apply to those plays only. Hence the reason for my inquiry.
When one examines the Zone Blocking Concepts generally peaking the Combination or Double Team happens at the intended POA. Rarely do we see Double Teams or Combination's across the LOS. Howard Mudd was the master of the Post and Pin style of Zone Blocking. The Colts used is to great advantage during their Hey Day under Manning. These days I suggest the blocking is mush more like the old G Series using the Guard to wrap backside.
Examining the Pistol Set they use the Ace, Deuce, Trey Concept a lot. Hey even the old Big on Big we might have used DT/Combo at POA and Scoop to POA on the back side. Center blocked the 1 or Mike. More often than not 2 butts to the hole was used Tackle to Tackle.
Sorry just throwing things out there.
Not MPP... ONE TASK! Teach them! 🙂
Kyle, if you think you can teach it, then give it a try.
We MIGHT down block on Power for 2 reasons: 1) When we see a TNT front (which is rare for us), or 2) as a variation. Down blocking has been as effective for us as a double team, but we change our blocking schemes with each play, I don't know that one gives us a bigger bang than another.
We wedge block on Wedge. On Trap, we send our entire playside to the 2nd level, except the Guard who doubles with the Center. (If there's no 0-Tech, the PSG also goes to 2nd level.) On ISO, we part block at the POA. Everyone else on playside blocks G/O/D. On Sweep we're reach blocking. On Counter we down block. On Yo-Yo, reverse or crisscross we down block. We also BOB block and Up block (the opposite of Down) for variation. On pass plays, we BOB or Down block.
I don't look to get two double teams on the playside because we're running behind a specific butt. I only care that we have daylight behind that one double team. If I'm wanting my ball-carrier to have options (more than one butt to run to), we'll make a deeper toss on Power so the ball-carrier has time to read which opening he wants. (We run 2 versions of Power; Shallow and Deep.)
The great thing about the down block (or the up block) is that angles give us leverage. And if you have leverage, it will defeat size. We saw no better evidence of this when at EWHS we went 170, 190, 195, 175, 150 from Tackle to Tackle (our TEs were even lighter) where we ran UCDW.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
I was reading through the toss, and I ran into their double team concept. They use the Post and shoot (AKA post and drive) method of blocking. They have the center post while the guard shoots. Then they have the tackle post, while the end drives....
The purpose of a double team is to block two players. First they block the person they're double teaming, and second they block the linebacker by moving a pile of bodies into the path they want to take.
But that's not going to happen with a post and shoot. It can happen with a 2-on-1 drive. A post-and-shoot is better suited to a combination block, because, depending on the post technique, one of the blockers should achieve a knockdown. That blocker can then release to 2nd level. If you want to create an obstacle at 2nd level, you need the opponent to stay on his feet -- or if you knock him down, splatter him backwards. In the post-and-shoot, the shoot blocker is trying to knock the opponent down sideways.
The old post-and-shoot technique had the post blocker going fairly low and using the side of his body closer to the shoot blocker as a barrier "horse" to the opponent. The post-and-shoot that I like has the post blocker just crouch, "catch", and elevate the opponent by the blocker's hands. That way either the post or the shoot blocker might be able to release, depending how the opponent reacts. If the opponent is lined up or charges in a way to feel the shoot blocker early, and fights that pressure, then it becomes a turn-and-shoot. But I do teach the 2-on-1 drive as well.
Kyle, if you think you can teach it, then give it a try.
We MIGHT down block on Power for 2 reasons: 1) When we see a TNT front (which is rare for us), or 2) as a variation. Down blocking has been as effective for us as a double team, but we change our blocking schemes with each play, I don't know that one gives us a bigger bang than another.
We wedge block on Wedge. On Trap, we send our entire playside to the 2nd level, except the Guard who doubles with the Center. (If there's no 0-Tech, the PSG also goes to 2nd level.) On ISO, we part block at the POA. Everyone else on playside blocks G/O/D. On Sweep we're reach blocking. On Counter we down block. On Yo-Yo, reverse or crisscross we down block. We also BOB block and Up block (the opposite of Down) for variation. On pass plays, we BOB or Down block.
I don't look to get two double teams on the playside because we're running behind a specific butt.
I'm reading this as you get one double team. It definitely seems like getting a double team on the nose is sort of unnecessary. If your guard is down blocking the nose, what is your center doing? Or is your center taking the nose while the guard releases to LB?
I only care that we have daylight behind that one double team. If I'm wanting my ball-carrier to have options (more than one butt to run to), we'll make a deeper toss on Power so the ball-carrier has time to read which opening he wants. (We run 2 versions; Shallow and Deep.)
The great thing about the down block (or the up block) is that angles give us leverage. And if you have leverage, it will defeat size. We saw no better evidence of this when at EWHS we went 170, 190, 195, 175, 150 from Tackle to Tackle (our TEs were even lighter) where we ran UCDW.
--Dave
In the other thread I was asking about subbing. I was surprised that nobody seemed to sub on the line. In The Toss they seem to have pretty small tackles and guards. I think that's because of the double teaming. You'd think it would be ideal to substitute, especially at playside guard.
Why is playside Guard ideal?
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
So when you see a T-N-T in say a 5-3 with stand up DEs outside of the Wings, does that strong side Wing release to an inside backer? Are you trying to hit that off tackle, just inside the FB kick out block?
So when you see a T-N-T in say a 5-3 with stand up DEs outside of the Wings, does that strong side Wing release to an inside backer?
--Seth, sometimes. Some years, the PSWB's blocking rule is F.B.I. (First Backer Inside). Some years, the PSWB waits to hear from the Tight End as to whether they're double-teaming (that would be the playside Wingback with the playside Tight End). Sometimes, the playside Wingback has a "Pin" call where he blocks down behind the PSTE and pins the defense's EMLOS as the EMLOS comes across the LOS.
--When the playside Tight End would code the playside WingBack with a double-team call, the Tight End would make his outside hand into a fist for a double-team, and an open hand if there wasn't a double-team. We've also made the call audibly where the TE calls out "9" for "no help" and "6" for a double team. When you make the call that way, both TEs need to call out "6" or "9" so that there's no tell.
Are you trying to hit that off tackle, just inside the FB kick out block?
--We rarely (but do on rare occasion) change the POA for our Power play. 99.999% we run Power at our Tight End's butt. But yes, it is just inside the Fullback's kickout block.
--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."
The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."
#BattleReady newhope
Thanks coach. I always seem to get a little more than expected when I ask you a question.
I was just watching a DW clinic last night that was based off of the presenter's 3 ways of blocking Power. I found it interesting because everyone thinks you can write an entire DW playbook on one side of a cocktail napkin, but there is so much more to it, as your reply shows.
How could this be achieved?
Teach Gap-On-Down as your play side blocking scheme on Powers, Counters and Traps. Make the Seven call adjustment if you are having trouble with inside penetration.
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