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Blocking SBV Quick Pitch  

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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 6:34 am  

I asked a similar question how to block Rocket Toss not too long ago, but we're going with SBV over Flex so I need to know its version of the blitz beater. I'm assuming Quick Pitch is to SBV what Rocket is to Flex. Do you block it like Rocket, with all the linemen the defender outside of them? I've seen it drawn up with backside scooping like normal veer rules, with the C, playside G, and TE reach blocking the defender outside them, with the PST pulling to block the LB. Thanks!


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bignose
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June 18, 2016 6:46 am  

We are reintroducing this as well, and decided to call our Quick Pitch "Rocket" because of the similarity to our Rocket from the DW.

We have run it both to a TE side and to an open side.
I prefer it to the open side when the defense reduces down, and to the TE side when you get a hard squeeze/crash from the DE. He can't stop this and the option, there is too much reaction conflict.
We usually pull the PST and try to reach him around. As you mentioned above, reach up with the TE and PSG. The Center has to block PS A gap to keep a blitzer from hitting your QB in the back as he reverses out.
It really doesn't matter what the other back side men do, the tackle can scoop or track flat down the LOS, and any backside receiver can run a fake pattern which sets up the Rocket Bootleg.

QB reverses out and pitches, turns back and fakes trap, then bootlegs away.

We had the BSG pull and wrap around which sets up the Quick Pitch Trap. Kills those fast flow ILBs and widened DT.
And the off HB fakes the trap (slashing across behind the Center to the far A gap).
We have also run in motion to lead the  play around.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 6:53 am  

OK thanks Coach! Sounds like I was on the right path. Our varsity coach said they run SBV with 3' splits across the board. I'm afraid that's going to be too big for 9/10 year olds. Might have to try 2'. Any suggestions as far as line splits? Option plays we will try to run out of SBV:

1. Called dive (ISV look)
2. ISV as double (keep/pitch), dive fake
3. Midline Lead - give/keep (out of I, some other non-option I plays so it's not a dead giveway)
4. OSV (true triple w/ EMLOS as dive read and CB as pitch read w/ WR cracking the force player)
5. Lead option to weak side (since we will almost always see 8 man fronts and will be outnumbered on the weak side making ISV a bad play)


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ZACH
 ZACH
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June 18, 2016 7:02 am  

OK thanks Coach! Sounds like I was on the right path. Our varsity coach said they run SBV with 3' splits across the board. I'm afraid that's going to be too big for 9/10 year olds. Might have to try 2'. Any suggestions as far as line splits? Option plays we will try to run out of SBV:

1. Called dive (ISV look)
2. ISV as double (keep/pitch), dive fake
3. Midline Lead - give/keep (out of I, some other non-option I plays so it's not a dead giveway)
4. OSV (true triple w/ EMLOS as dive read and CB as pitch read w/ WR cracking the force player)
5. Lead option to weak side (since we will almost always see 8 man fronts and will be outnumbered on the weak side making ISV a bad play)

This looks.solid, #4 you will reconsider over time..  osv triple is hard bc of the speed from dive to pitch option.  Try it for sure just my experiance

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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bignose
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June 18, 2016 8:59 am  

My concern with that age group is pitching the ball-little hands, and trying to read too many different options. You can always predetermine until the kids get good and confident.

Dives, absolutely, they set up everything else. I would build 50% around Dives. You need to be able to Dive over the guard and wider, over the tackle, based on what the defense is giving you.

OSV is a play where you don't get to the pitch often, which is O.K. with me. It's the best play in the offense, IMO. Just make sure that the QB is going slightly down hill into the LOS and getting the ball all the way to the Dive man's pocket, not his near hip. Dive man "runs on rails" and is responsible for the mesh.

2 foot splits at that age level should do fine. You'll need to scoot your backs closer than 4 yards as well. Heck, if you are OSV based, then you can close the C-G split down even more.

Mid line from split backs is very do-able, the off HB crosses and leads, or the QB can hand him the ball-double dive. The QB's footwork takes some practice.

Leads over guard work fine from Split Backs as does Power Off Tackle, blocked exactly like OSV-you can have the QB toss and lead, handoff and boot way on this. You need a few plays like this to take the load off of the QB.

Good reference: look up ucbears90 on Youtube. He has a bunch of real good video on the plays.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 9:12 am  

This looks.solid, #4 you will reconsider over time..  osv triple is hard bc of the speed from dive to pitch option.  Try it for sure just my experiance

OK thanks. Yeah I thought maybe if the CB is taken wide by the flanker, then that would buy some  extra time to read it for the pitch. Plus like it's been pointed out it's rarely a pitch so the main thing would be reading the end man for the give/keep. I appreciate your feedback!


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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 9:18 am  

My concern with that age group is pitching the ball-little hands, and trying to read too many different options. You can always predetermine until the kids get good and confident.

Dives, absolutely, they set up everything else. I would build 50% around Dives. You need to be able to Dive over the guard and wider, over the tackle, based on what the defense is giving you.

OSV is a play where you don't get to the pitch often, which is O.K. with me. It's the best play in the offense, IMO. Just make sure that the QB is going slightly down hill into the LOS and getting the ball all the way to the Dive man's pocket, not his near hip. Dive man "runs on rails" and is responsible for the mesh.

2 foot splits at that age level should do fine. You'll need to scoot your backs closer than 4 yards as well. Heck, if you are OSV based, then you can close the C-G split down even more.

Mid line from split backs is very do-able, the off HB crosses and leads, or the QB can hand him the ball-double dive. The QB's footwork takes some practice.

Leads over guard work fine from Split Backs as does Power Off Tackle, blocked exactly like OSV-you can have the QB toss and lead, handoff and boot way on this. You need a few plays like this to take the load off of the QB.

Good reference: look up ucbears90 on Youtube. He has a bunch of real good video on the plays.

OK thanks. Yeah I'm hoping most of our plays are off of dives so that's good to know. Midline just isn't as quick hitting out of split backs though right? So if you're running midline right, the right HB steps 45 to the left up thru right A gap for the dive, and left HB goes through the right B gap to lead for the QB right?


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Bob Goodman
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June 18, 2016 9:19 am  

I only coach to hook the end.  If there's someone available to crack back on either DE or LB, do that, but the trick is if there's a DE who can be hooked.  And that's all about extending the range of an OL who can come from just inside him to block him.  And the way I do that is by teaching a reach-crab.  The blocker starts out with a step to reach the DE, but then throws his inside foot and both hands down across, to get as much as he can of the side of his own body across the outside hip of the DE.  Even if you don't get him down, that should be enough.

Of course if you've called the play at the right time, the DE will be sucked inside enough, or slanting inside, so your hook blocker doesn't need to extend his range much.  If he can get outside the DE while staying on his feet, fine.  And if you've called the play at any other time, at least  showing quick pitch will discourage the DE from pinching in at the snap.

Everybody else, the blocking doesn't matter.  They can release to 2nd level, angled toward the side the pitch is to.  Or they can just take a breather; some coaches think they have as much a chance of committing a clipping or block-in-the-back foul as they do to the legitimate progress of the play.  In fact even if you miss the hook block entirely, the play has a chance of success, just because you've got a runner in the open field -- provided he fields the pitch cleanly.


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bignose
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June 18, 2016 11:03 am  

Midline just isn't as quick hitting out of split backs though right? So if you're running midline right, the right HB steps 45 to the left up thru right A gap for the dive, and left HB goes through the right B gap to lead for the QB right

Mid line is a hair slower from Split backs although you can "cheat" the HB closer for this. I don't think there is all that much difference, we are talking about fractions of a second, here.
The Dive man takes a slide step towards the Center's near foot, meshes and hits with his shoulders squared up-he can wind all the back behind the Center if a nose slants hard to the A gap.

The QB does not have to jump or hop back to get off of the Mid line cylinder like he does with a centrally located FB in the Flexbone. What he does is open a path to the Center's near foot. A defender in the A gap is an automatic 'keep" read.

Rather, he opens deep ( big step back at 5 o'clock if going to the right) with his near foot, and balances up with his off ( left) foot, as the Dive man crosses in front him.
He actually ends up at a better angle to attack the LOS this way, since he is facing into the B gap instead of facing the sideline like in the Flexbone. It will be a very quick ride, but I still plan to ride this, rather than use the "point" method. I think that the ride method protects the ball a little better.

Just what  I am comfortable with.
LHB will step out flat right and then aim into the B gap. You can have him lead thru,or you can give him the ball, depending on the running ability of the QB.

Further up you mention that ISV is not great weak side vs. an 8 man front. This is where you use a Twins formation to force them out of the 8 man front. OSV vs. the 3-3 and ISV to the Twins side vs. the 4-4.

BTW, you must have an aggressive runner at QB.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 5:15 pm  

Mid line is a hair slower from Split backs although you can "cheat" the HB closer for this. I don't think there is all that much difference, we are talking about fractions of a second, here.
The Dive man takes a slide step towards the Center's near foot, meshes and hits with his shoulders squared up-he can wind all the back behind the Center if a nose slants hard to the A gap.

The QB does not have to jump or hop back to get off of the Mid line cylinder like he does with a centrally located FB in the Flexbone. What he does is open a path to the Center's near foot. A defender in the A gap is an automatic 'keep" read.

Rather, he opens deep ( big step back at 5 o'clock if going to the right) with his near foot, and balances up with his off ( left) foot, as the Dive man crosses in front him.
He actually ends up at a better angle to attack the LOS this way, since he is facing into the B gap instead of facing the sideline like in the Flexbone. It will be a very quick ride, but I still plan to ride this, rather than use the "point" method. I think that the ride method protects the ball a little better.

Just what  I am comfortable with.
LHB will step out flat right and then aim into the B gap. You can have him lead thru,or you can give him the ball, depending on the running ability of the QB.

Further up you mention that ISV is not great weak side vs. an 8 man front. This is where you use a Twins formation to force them out of the 8 man front. OSV vs. the 3-3 and ISV to the Twins side vs. the 4-4.

BTW, you must have an aggressive runner at QB.

I have a hard time getting ISV out of Twins right on paper. I have read Lou Holtz's paper on Twin Veer. Will most 8-man front teams pull the Sam backer to cover the slot, or will they roll the free safety down into a cover 0?


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bignose
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June 18, 2016 5:43 pm  

From my experience, a 4-4 team will walk out the OLB and keep the FS in the middle of the field. Cover 3.
If they want to play Cover 0, who is going to stop the dive, if he breaks the LOS?  We don't see a lot of M-2-M vs. the option.

This puts the 5 tech as the edge player.
You widen the dive backs path slightly to the B gap. He goes outside of the combo block of the PSG and PST. The 5 tech either has the Dive or the QB, not both.

There has always been a debate about the semantics of ISV or OSV, but since we are reading a 5 tech, I consider it a ISV.
The OLB has an assignment reaction conflict: pitch, or flat coverage.

You may see  F filling the alley, but you should be able to consistently move the ball. He better be the defenses' best tackler.

………………………………..F

..C………………………………………………………………………….C
……….B……………….B………B…………………………..B
……………E……..T……………T………E
………….O….O…..O.…X…..O…..O……………………………….O
……………………………..Q…………………………………..X
……………………….L………….R

So versus this look, you have an ISV to the open side and the midline to the TE side, reading the 3 tech.
We are not teaching a true ISV any longer, where the dive man hits over the outside hip of the guard, since we don't see the old 5-2 that it was originally designed to attack.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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Jtatham
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June 18, 2016 5:49 pm  

From my experience, a 4-4 team will walk out the OLB and keep the FS in the middle of the field.
Cover 3.
We don't see a lot of M-2-M vs. the option.
This puts a 5 tech as the edge player.
You widen the dive backs path slightly to the B gap. The 5 tech either has the Dive or the QB, not both.
The OLB has an assignment reaction conflict: pitch, or flat coverage.
You may see  F filling the alley, but you should be able to consistently move the ball. He better be the defenses' best tackler.

………………………………..F
..C………………………………………………………………………….C
……….B……………….B………B…………………………..B
……………E……..T……………T………E
………….O….O…..O.…X…..O…..O……………………………….O
……………………………..Q…………………………………..X
……………………….L………….R

So versus this look, you have an ISV to the open side and the midline to the TE side, reading the 3 tech.
We are not teaching a true ISV any longer, where the dive man hits over the outside hip of the guard, since we don't see the old 5-2 that it was originally designed to attack.

Would a 5-3 defense probably bring the Sam backer out as well? We see more 5-3 looks than 4-4 although we see some (and we will be running Gregory's 6-3 which is really a 4-4).


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bignose
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June 18, 2016 6:05 pm  

We see two looks from the 5-3.

Here, the Spur walks out and they stay in a stack.
I like the OSV to the TE side against this look, plus Mid  Line, and Quick Pitch to the open side. I wouldn't even block the 4 tech on Q.P., just have the T reach out to the W. (Or crack Z inside)

………………………………..F
…C…………………………………………………………………………….C
………$……..S.……..M……...….W……………………….$
………………T……..…N………..T
……….O….O….O….X….O….O………………………………………..O
………………………….Q…………………………………………Z
……………………L…………R
If we see a lot of this adjustment, we will go a Pro set and force the defense to walk the corner out, which makes the OSV to the TE side go better.

We also see this:
The W walks out and the defense plays the front like a 5-2. LB's may or may not slide over. The linebackers are not protected by the down linemen, and have to take on linemen who are able to drive block them. They are not used to this, they are usually in blitz mode or fast flow.
Dives over guard, midline to the right side (give all day, as that 4 tech ain't getting down for the dive unless at the snap he comes straight down the LOS.), and OSV to the TE side (great play since it's easier to block the 4 tech down). The corner and spur to the TE side are faced with a 3 on 2 fast break to the edge.

………………………………..F
..C……………………………………………………………………………C
……….$……….…S………M…………………………………..W
…………….T……….….N……….…T…….$
……..O….O……O……X…..O…..O…………………………………..O
…………………………..Q………………………………………..Z
……………………L…………..R

Finally, if you really want to jerk a 5-3 team around do this:
TE over Twins.

..O…O…X….O…O….O…………………………..O
………….Q…………………………………….Z
………L……….R

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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