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SBV Quick Pitch - open up or pivot?  

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Jtatham
(@jtatham)
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July 25, 2016 10:17 am  

How do you guys run it? I assumed everybody ran it reverse pivoting, but opening up playside seems like it would help the play happen faster. Any advantage to reverse pivot?


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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July 25, 2016 10:36 am  

Reverse pivot puts more torque on the ball so in theory can travel a longer distance. 

Quick pitch is meant to be just that so tid for tat ide say reverse pivot has more possibility  of things not going correctly . I was taught open pivot.

The best people to ask would be Clark or Bignose

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Bob Goodman
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July 25, 2016 2:15 pm  

How do you guys run it?

Open to play side.

Since you're pitching to the play side back, reverse pivoting would:

  • take the receiver out of view of the QB until the last instant,
  • delay his getting the ball,
  • make execution harder,
  • not improve deception, given the usual complement of veer plays.

Starting from a conventional straight-ahead QB stance, push off the back side foot while stepping play side to 4 o'clock.  Then use a swinging-shoveling motion while following the hands with the back side foot.  I think it's easier to keep the pass low with spiral on it than end-over-end spin, but haven't experimented enough to confirm that.

From sidesaddle I prefer a chest pass.


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bignose
(@bignose)
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July 25, 2016 2:55 pm  

I always taught a reverse pivot to pitch the ball on this play.
I am assuming spit backs and pitching the ball to a non motioning back. We'd cheat him out a tad, say to the Tackle's inside foot for this. He still ends up catching the ball just as he clears the TE area, make sure he releases parallel to the LOS and doesn't bend forwards on the pitch until he get past the edge.

The rationale is to get the QB a little bit off of the LOS as he reverses away and pitches, so penetration means that he gets hit in the back, instead of a defender penetrating and possibly slapping the ball as he pitches it. You can toss the ball with more force if you reverse out, you are limited if you front out and underhand toss the ball.

Plus a front out pitch has the QB dropping the ball low between his legs to pitch it, not a good thing in my mind.

Also, a lot of QBs could do the underhand front out pitch with their passing hand, but struggled tossing the ball this way with their non throwing hand.

Finally we had a "hand back trap" set up off of the reverse pivot action which caused much better ILB flow than the front out did.

I had a previous HC who insisted that the QB reverse if pitching to the right and fronting out when he pitched to the left (dominant passing hand-right). That got changed immediately after he retired. LOL

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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Bob Goodman
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July 25, 2016 7:06 pm  

Also, a lot of QBs could do the underhand front out pitch with their passing hand, but struggled tossing the ball this way with their non throwing hand.

Were they trying for a spiral?  If so, it's like hook in bowling, same hand either way.  The other hand is a guide hand.

I actually look at the low position of the ball as a benefit, but I might be influenced there by rugby experience.  I can't disagree that getting your body between the ball and the opponents is a good thing, though.  But the handback isn't much of a complement to the quick pitch if you're reversing out, because then you don't have one of the backs flowing away.  In fact, handback is a better complement to fronting out for the pitch.  You can hold the ball out there for a slant to the same side, or turn for the handback.

Unless...is your handback one where the QB does a half turn one way, then turns back?


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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July 25, 2016 8:14 pm  

OK just straight SBV.

You aint got time to reverse Mumbo Jumbo! Just get the ball out and block same!  It aint a quick Pitch if your pussy footin around!

JMHO

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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bignose
(@bignose)
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July 26, 2016 4:36 am  

Unless...is your handback one where the QB does a half turn one way, then turns back?

Yup.
Handback Trap (we did not do a lot of trapping with the base offense)
Off HB jab/delays and then slashes over the Center's far foot, i.e. LHB will hit over the Center's right foot.
QB gives a big reverse pivot with a shoulder shrug to simulate the pitch, turns back and hands off. He then boots away.

We do that when we Quick Pitch to create a little uncertainty, as well.
This is one of those plays that hits big the first time that you run it, but you can't go to the well too often with it, it becomes a diminishing return.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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KFMagee
(@kfmagee)
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July 31, 2016 3:37 pm  

Again as the resident D1 QB from years gone by and having run both  the I Formation and the Spread Backfield Veer, let me share my perspective on two plays...

PITCH: From under center, I want to Reverse out... the spinning motion gives me momentum and helps me locate my target toss back faster.  The half spin also freezes inside backers for just a half step... that makes a difference.

OPTION: Here visibility is the issue.  Reverse out forces me to relocate the reads, and takes my eyes off of my WR who is usually running a Skinny Post or an outside GO... I prefer Play side Open... it lets me ride an inside dive while reading the DL key, and still see a downfield glance if the CB freezes early thinking a Safety is over the top helping out... sometimes he DOES, and sometimes he DOESN'T...

I follow both of those rules today coaching my QB's in our Wing T and Wishbone offenses.  Reverse to face the toss back on the toss sweep, and open up on the option read.

Coach Magee

PSO- Youth Rec League (2nd - 8th)Wishbone & 45 Gritz Blitz


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angalton
(@angalton)
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August 1, 2016 6:20 am  

This out of wishbone. We run a fake dive in the backside of our pitch. Therefore it is a reverse pivot, which is quicker and easier than opening playside. Within that play we have dive, quick pitch, and keep. Keep and follow are how we run our qb, when not running option.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.


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Jtatham
(@jtatham)
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August 1, 2016 6:47 am  

Thank you everyone for your input. We ended up going with opening up playside for quick pitch since we are pitching to the playside back. If we end up doing any power or sweep plays out of I or split backs with a pitch to the tailback or backside HB we will probably reverse pivot. The "hot potato" approach seemed the best since we're trying to get it to the playside HB as quickly as possible.


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