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Pearls of Wisdom
(@pearls-of-wisdom)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4446
 

Coaching 6 year old flag, had this same group of boys last season, and returned all but one, who moved to Colorado. Last season we had me, two dad coaches, and another coach who I have coached with for 4 years. So two coaches with no son on the team, and two with. This year, I added another coach who also does not have a son on the team, I have coached with him the last two springs...

Last season, I laid out the expectations for the new AC's, this season, I raised the bar for them, letting them know they needed to know the offense and the defense and learn the techniques we are teaching the boys. I also sent them a drill library we would use this season, and explained they should be familiar with the drills as I would expect them to be able to teach the boys.

We met 2 times prior to the season starting, and once after the season started to slot the boys in their positions after the evaluation practices were completed. During the eval, we ran the boys through everything. Every boy had a chance to snap the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, take handoffs and run with the ball, block, pull flags, etc. We put the stop watch on all the boys 4 times (two different practices) and timed them in the 27. We also ran them all through different agilities, and of course we ran COD.

So following the last eval practice, we met at a local pizza joint, and discussed how to break the boys up into two squads. We were missing one of the dad coaches. We waited about 15 minutes past start time and then we started. We had the boys times from the 27, we had notes on what we saw from the evaluation drills and agilities, and we got things laid out pretty well, we have only made one positional change since the meeting. The missing coaches son was slotted at G on O and LB on D.

I communicate a lot with the coaches as we go through practice plans and ask them for their input, what are they seeing, etc. 3 of the coaches engage, we speak on the phone and via emails. The one coach who missed the meeting is not participating in these discussions. He and his son are consistently late for practices and when he finally shows up, he will wander over to one of the drill stations and observe.

So, at our league scheduled scrimmages, he makes a suggestion about swapping his son and another boy, because the other boy is getting off the ball slow on defense... I watch the next snap, see what he is talking about, and go and coach the slow boy up, I do not make the switch and he does better for the rest of the scrimmage, getting off the ball reasonably quickly. Coach also made another suggestion about backing the LB's up a step, so they don't get tangled up with the Dline, that change I liked the idea of, so I moved them back a step, and the results were good.

Fast forward to our week one game...we are in the middle of getting our butts kicked and I am on the field with the Defense...one of the non dad coaches shouts an adjustment from the sideline, the same suggestion dad made during the scrimmages...I hear him, and recall that the boy was slow during the scrimmages, so I swap the two boys out.

Well, apparently, that offended dad coach, because he starts spewing venom on the sideline, in front of the parents and the boys about how I am showing favoritism...one of the other AC's hears this and basically tells him to shut up, and he does. I am unaware of this until after the game, and the offending coach had already left the field. I decide I will give him the evening to cool off, and I will speak to him about this on Sunday afternoon.

So, Sunday, I give him a call, get his Voicemail and leave him a message asking him to call me back. About three minutes later, he calls back I answer and say "Hey George (not his real name), how's it going?" and he replies with "Who is this?"... I identify myself, and he says, "Oh, sorry coach, I don't have your number programed in my phone".  ::)

So I ask him about Saturday, and he says, yes, I said it, and I meant it, you are showing favoritism and I liked last year better when my son was a running back. I don't understand how Billy who cries every time he gets knocked down and the new kid Joey, who seems lost are running backs and my son isn't. I explained to him that we evaluated all of the boys and then we had the meeting were we discussed where we would be slotting the boys. The boys have been placed in their  spots in the best interests of the team, and if you wanted your input heard, you should have been at the meeting. To which he responds, well I have a life outside of football, and because you are showing favoritism, you don't listen to me, but you will listen to the other coaches.

I told him I am not showing any favoritism, I have no boy on the team, and as far as the other coaches were concerned, they are engaged, and you are not, you have only given me two ideas, one I listened to, the second I did not. He asked me why I listened to the other coach when he made the same suggestion, I explained the circumstances were different...one was a scrimmage, where we teach, the other was a game, where we adjust on the field, and then teach on the sideline.

I further went on, and let him know that if he wanted me to hear to him, he first had to speak, and engage at practice, when I ask for input, give input, call me, email me, speak to me during the water breaks at practice, whichever is simpler for him. I explained if he did these things, I would listen, I might not agree or act on his input, but I would listen and explain why we could or could not do something he suggested.

I then told him that what he did Saturday was wrong, and he would not do it again. To which he replied, I am a grown man, you cannot tell me what I can do. I repeated "That will not happen again, it is bad for the team, if it does, you and I are going to have a problem" He said, "Well, sometimes things just pop out, I will try, but I can't make any promises".

I sent the league an email, explaining the situation and asked them the process for firing a volunteer coach. They said, you fire him, then let us know...

Monday, he showed up early for practice, and he was engaged...so maybe he heard me...we shall see, he is on a short leash, one misstep and he is done...

When you are in charge and it becomes apparent that you have recruited or hired a β€œloser”,  get rid of him as quickly as humanly possible.  Losers will destroy an organization as surely as locusts will destroy a crop.

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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Malibu
(@idaho-coach)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 877
 

Wow, Dan your reply is so off base it's ridiculous.  I would WANT my son to play for a coach who takes the game as appropriately serious as Chris.  Far too often, kids have to deal with coaches who share the same attitude as you do. ("Who cares?  Who will remember?")  Chris recognizes the responsibility of his position and obligation, and is working hard to see that these kids' time is not wasted.

("Yeesh.  They are babies.")  I heard the same thing when I coached Mitey-Mites.  And Junior PeeWees.  And PeeWees.  And Midgets.  And even middle school.  I took it seriously because I recognized my responsibility and obligation to my players.  If you (as a youth football coach) can't understand or appreciate the value of a dedicated youth football coach, then I just don't know what to say...

--Dave

It is about being "appropriately" serious.  At 6, that ain't very serious! 


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Michael
(@michael)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 12890
 

Scrooged (6/10) Movie CLIP - Five Pounds of Veal (1988) HD

0:14 to 0:38

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17888
 

It is about being "appropriately" serious.  At 6, that ain't very serious!

You either take seriously the kids in your charge, or you don't.  If you don't see the responsibility you have, (given the fact that these are a group of kids) then you don't need to be out there.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Threepwood
(@wettstein)
Bronze
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 367
 

The football season is too short for you to be messing with coaches who are not completely loyal to the team.  A coach like this is cancer to the team.  With cancer, you remove it as soon as you find it.  You will gain respect from the parents as well. 


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2462
Topic starter  

Sorry, I had to take my daughter to the orthodontist yesterday, but I missed some good conversation on this...I want to go back and address certain things...which I will do...

But...an update...

Coach was early to practice again yesterday, and he was engaged again...he actually got cleated while running a drill  ;D

We had one thing happen last night, that was a teaching opportunity...for both one of the boys and the coach...

We were running O against scout D, and one of our boys was lined up as a DT against our G, the biggest kid on the team, and he can block, we call him pancake πŸ™‚

Well pancake pancaked the little guy, and the little guy started crying, I was over with the offense watching something else, so I didn't see the pancake...Coach called me over and said, we need to change this matchup...I told him "No, we don't, we won't get to pick who will be trying to block him on Saturday"...then I got with the little guy, and asked him why he thought he got pancaked..."He's bigger and stronger than me"...I told him nope, you used poor technique, and tried going backwards to avoid the block (as I didn't actually see it, it was a guess, but I see this from him from time to time, so I figured it was a safe guess)...I proceeded to tell him if he went forward, and moved his feet, he could defeat the block...I said, c'mere, I'll help you...

I lined him up against pancake again, I was kneeling next to him, talking him up, telling him he could do this, get off the ball quickly, fire your hands and move your feet...ball is snapped, I shout "GO" and he does...and we had a sort of stalemate with them, pancake did move him backwards, but only a couple of feet...and I shouted "AWESOME! much better!"...wanting to build off that success, I moved the front around (running the bad guys D) and rolled him to the other side...and again, I told him, get off the ball quick...go get me a flag...this time he was lined up outside shade of the T. Ball is snapped, and he runs to the sideline...play is over, I blow the whistle and asked him, why did you do that? He said, "I thought they were going to try and trick us"...I told him whether or not they are trying to trick us, you have to go forward, every time...so we lined up again, and I said, go forward dude, you can do this...

Ball is snapped, he flies forward, and he is in the back field and he has the ball carrier by the flag belt, and he is fighting and gets the flag...I make a big deal out of his success! High fiving him and telling him that's how you do it, right there!

We finish practice, and Coach is gone...so I give him a call on the way home, I complimented him on being engaged this week in practice, and tell him that is what I need from him...then I explain to him my thought process on the little guy...in one on one drills, we will try and use match ups that are not lopsided, but during team, they get the match ups they get...fast kid against slow kid, big kid against little kid...we do it in practice, because they will see it in the game, and have to deal with it. And in practice, we can control it, and rep it again and teach the kid...that way he is not intimidated during the game...experiencing success in practice will lead to confidence during the game...like I said a coaching moment...

I will respond to some of the other great posts in a little bit...thanks for engaging on this guys πŸ™‚

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2462
Topic starter  

It tough getting a Staff together especially when the kids are so young and the AC's dont get it.

Chris....this guy wont last. Get thru this season so his son can have a chance at some fun then day one of the off season cut him loose.

He is going to trash you from now until then and his son is going to hear it off the field.  If his sons demeanor changes towards you....fire this guy the next day and if Jr quits....oh well.

Mike, I think that is the track I am going to take, this week in practice he has been early, engaged and asks questions when he is not sure of something...I have no doubt that he is going to be upset with me and trash me in the car to his wife, about how I am not giving his kid a chance at RB...and I thoroughly expect he and Junior will not be Dawgs again next season...but as long as he toes the line this season, he can stay on the sideline...he will be a dad/fan next season...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2462
Topic starter  

I can't believe there were several paragraphs and a whole thread after this part.  I would have been like, "Are you f'ing kidding me with this crap? "

Don't take this the wrong way because I appreciate how much time you are putting in and really respect how organized you are being.  But is 6 year old flag even considered a sport?    Yeesh.  They are babies.  The games are more comedy than any type of serious competition.  As it should be.         

Anyone who is a remote problem and is yelling about who is doing what in 6 year old flag needs to be in the stands and also seeing a psychiatrist or priest/minister.

In all honesty I would probably teach all the kids every position and not really be concerned about W's and L's at all.  Who cares?    Who will remember?    Just get them better at passing and catching and pursuit angles and breaking down to grab a flag.    And trust me I am a psycho about W's and L's. 

That being said, it's not advisable to let someone else tell me who to play where or be a problem at all at any level of play. 

By firing him you are fixing him for the future or trying to.  The kid can stay if he wants, dad is a parent/fan now.  Clean slate next year with the org. with an understanding about being a douche bag in the future.    But I wouldn't ask him back for my staff.

In all honesty I am such a push over, I probably would give him another chance since he has already started with the team if he was regretful and said it wouldn't happen again.  Just because his kid plays on the team and I don't want to embarrass the kid if I can help it.  But if he said, I can't promise anything (like he did) - that would be that.

Daniel, I hear what you are saying...it is a sport and a building block, I will (hopefully) be coaching this group of boys until they start Junior High Ball, when I drafted the team last year (when they were 5) I drafted a football team, not a flag football team. And I told the parents that I was here to teach their boys the great sport of Football, not flag football...I told them I would be teaching them football techniques that translated to the flag rules, we would be teaching a scaled down version of the DW and keep adding to it as the years went on. If we did not win a single flag game, I would be okay as long as the boys were learning and getting better and having fun...well, they are learning, having fun, and last season we made the playoffs...so we won a few games too...

Essentially, what I have found from the boys, they get to wear a cool looking uniform, wear a flag belt, chew on a mouth piece and run around and push and shove each other...I have taught them how to push and shove more effectively πŸ™‚ and they are having fun...they are currently more interested in the individual battles they have than the score board, "Coach, did you see me knock that kid down?"...the folks who are interested in the scoreboard are the parents...or at least some of them are...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17888
 

Coach was early to practice again yesterday, and he was engaged again...he actually got cleated while running a drill  ;D

We had one thing happen last night, that was a teaching opportunity...for both one of the boys and the coach...

We were running O against scout D, and one of our boys was lined up as a DT against our G, the biggest kid on the team, and he can block, we call him pancake πŸ™‚

Well pancake pancaked the little guy, and the little guy started crying, I was over with the offense watching something else, so I didn't see the pancake...Coach called me over and said, we need to change this matchup...I told him "No, we don't, we won't get to pick who will be trying to block him on Saturday"...then I got with the little guy, and asked him why he thought he got pancaked..."He's bigger and stronger than me"...I told him nope, you used poor technique, and tried going backwards to avoid the block (as I didn't actually see it, it was a guess, but I see this from him from time to time, so I figured it was a safe guess)...I proceeded to tell him if he went forward, and moved his feet, he could defeat the block...I said, c'mere, I'll help you...

I lined him up against pancake again, I was kneeling next to him, talking him up, telling him he could do this, get off the ball quickly, fire your hands and move your feet...ball is snapped, I shout "GO" and he does...and we had a sort of stalemate with them, pancake did move him backwards, but only a couple of feet...and I shouted "AWESOME! much better!"...wanting to build off that success, I moved the front around (running the bad guys D) and rolled him to the other side...and again, I told him, get off the ball quick...go get me a flag...this time he was lined up outside shade of the T. Ball is snapped, and he runs to the sideline...play is over, I blow the whistle and asked him, why did you do that? He said, "I thought they were going to try and trick us"...I told him whether or not they are trying to trick us, you have to go forward, every time...so we lined up again, and I said, go forward dude, you can do this...

Ball is snapped, he flies forward, and he is in the back field and he has the ball carrier by the flag belt, and he is fighting and gets the flag...I make a big deal out of his success! High fiving him and telling him that's how you do it, right there!

We finish practice, and Coach is gone...so I give him a call on the way home, I complimented him on being engaged this week in practice, and tell him that is what I need from him...then I explain to him my thought process on the little guy...in one on one drills, we will try and use match ups that are not lopsided, but during team, they get the match ups they get...fast kid against slow kid, big kid against little kid...we do it in practice, because they will see it in the game, and have to deal with it. And in practice, we can control it, and rep it again and teach the kid...that way he is not intimidated during the game...experiencing success in practice will lead to confidence during the game...like I said a coaching moment.

Best post I've read in a long time.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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DL
 DL
(@daniel-lyons)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4984
 

Wow, Dan your reply is so off base it's ridiculous.  I would WANT my son to play for a coach who takes the game as appropriately serious as Chris.  Far too often, kids have to deal with coaches who share the same attitude as you do. ("Who cares?  Who will remember?")  Chris recognizes the responsibility of his position and obligation, and is working hard to see that these kids' time is not wasted.

("Yeesh.  They are babies.")  I heard the same thing when I coached Mitey-Mites.  And Junior PeeWees.  And PeeWees.  And Midgets.  And even middle school.  I took it seriously because I recognized my responsibility and obligation to my players.  If you (as a youth football coach) can't understand or appreciate the value of a dedicated youth football coach, then I just don't know what to say...

--Dave

My intent with the babies comment wasn't that you don't teach them as best you can or work hard at it.    It's that your goals are different and the way you interact with the kids is different.

Like I said, I want committed teachers at any age.  I would want Spider coaching my kid.  My point, or my attempted point, was that you teach age appropriate and your attitude is age appropriate.  Not that you don't teach as best you can.  I treat different age groups differently.  When coaching 6,7 and 8 year olds - the attitude is very light hearted.           

The babies comment was also made because you had a dad already fricken complaining that his kid wasn't the RB in 6 year old flag ball.  What a joke and a huge red flag.  That was the focus of my 'who cares' comment, like I said in an earlier post it may have been poorly worded so it sounded directed at Spider.  That dad needs to get a grip. 


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Malibu
(@idaho-coach)
Silver
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 877
 

You either take seriously the kids in your charge, or you don't.  If you don't see the responsibility you have, (given the fact that these are a group of kids) then you don't need to be out there.

--Dave

Now I shouldn't be coaching.  Nice one.  Get a grip.


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2462
Topic starter  

Scrooged (6/10) Movie CLIP - Five Pounds of Veal (1988) HD

0:14 to 0:38

I love veal πŸ™‚

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17888
 

It's that your goals are different and the way you interact with the kids is different.

--Chris' goal teaching 6-year-olds at Flag is the exact same as my goal teaching high school players.  The goal is to teach them the very best you can.  If that's too ambiguous, then it's taking your responsibility seriously, not wasting kids' time, being organized, having structure and providing a disciplined environment in order to teach.  You cannot do this if you aren't taking it seriously.

When coaching 6,7 and 8 year olds - the attitude is very light hearted. 

--Successful coaches teach to the strength of their personality.  No one will ever confuse Gagliardi with Lombardi.  Yet both were great at what they did.        

The babies comment was also made because you had a dad already fricken complaining that his kid wasn't the RB in 6 year old flag ball.

--But Dan, the same applies to ANY age of youth football.  Right now, I have three former players who are D1 college football starters as offensive backs.  The starting QB at Georgia Tech played Offensive Tackle and Linebacker for me.  The starting RB at NC State played Tight End for me (never touched the ball).  The starting RB at UNC played TE and LB for me.  I certainly did not hinder their ability to get a D1 college scholarship regardless of how bad a judge of talent I was.  I placed them where I thought they would help us be successful.  I was also fortunate that these parents didn't complain to me.  Either they saw what I saw, or they just wanted their kids to play and enjoy youth ball.  Let their high school coach figure out that they're a RB or QB.  After all, a college coach isn't going to recruit them until then.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17888
 

Now I shouldn't be coaching.  Nice one.  Get a grip.

No, no, no, Mal.  You've completely misundertood my post.  (Because I typed it incorrectly.)  When I say "you," I don't mean "YOU."  I mean "anyone who doesn't take it seriously enough to commit to excellence." 

Gee, you're as bad as my players:  "But Coach, you said run "Rip 66 Super Power."  "I know what I said, but that's not what I meant.  You need to already know when I made a mistake and correct it yourself!"

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23171
 

No, no, no, Mal.  You've completely misundertood my post.  (Because I typed it incorrectly.)  When I say "you," I don't mean "YOU."  I mean "anyone who doesn't take it seriously enough to commit to excellence." 

Gee, you're as bad as my players:  "But Coach, you said run "Rip 66 Super Power."  "I know what I said, but that's not what I meant.  You need to already know when I made a mistake and correct it yourself!"

--Dave

;D

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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